Are we failing our children (rant)

imurphy

imurphy

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This is something that's been bothering me over the last while. It may be that I'm just from another country and don't totally understand the system totally, having worked at home for over a decade, and jumping headfirst into a new system. And a new culture.

So anyway, my problem is: Section 12s. Well at least that's what they're called here in MA. If they're a different name in other states, it's the "Emergency restraint of dangerous persons; application for hospitalization; examination" (Full text)

The reason I am confused about this, is why am I bringing children into a facility, which could be averted by proper parenting.

The youngest I have brought in was a 10 year old boy, while I have heard of other crews bringing in 5 year olds. Just in case you think you read that wrong. 5. Years. Old.

In the case of the 5 year old, the child was "generally misbehaving and acting out". That's kind of what happens when you're five.

So has it become common place now to decide "Nah, I don't really want to be a parent. Instead of teaching my children right and wrong, instilling family values etc, I'm just going to have them medicated and brought into a facility so I don't have to bother."

One of my 10 year olds I brought in was being bullied at school. Basically, he was upset about it, so instead of talking to the principal / bully's parents, the family decided to just bring him in and get him sectioned.

Just last night, I brought in another child to the ED under a section. My report included "-SI, -HI, -Hallucinations -hx of depression -Triggers (all from the paperwork from the other facility as it was IFT, I don't consider myself a mental health specialist)" The nurse asked me "So why is he coming in on a 12?" I just put the paperwork down, looked the triage nurse in the eye and said "Honestly, I have no idea. I was just told to take them here, and have this paperwork."

On the adult side, I really don't have so much to say on the matter, except that a number of the 12's I take actually want to get help. Which is great, however, HOW can they be 12'd if they are going voluntarily?. From the law itself (from the same link)

"(c) No person shall be admitted to a facility under the provisions of this section unless he, or his parent or legal guardian in his behalf, is given an opportunity to apply for voluntary admission under the provisions of paragraph (a) of section ten and unless he, or such parent or legal guardian has been informed (1) that he has a right to such voluntary admission, and (2) that the period of hospitalization under the provisions of this section cannot exceed three days. At any time during such period of hospitalization, the superintendent may discharge such person if he determines that such person is not in need of care and treatment."

So that's my rant!
 
Wow,a 5 year old? thats a rough one to deal with. A few months back I was de-contaminating our rig when PD brought in an 8 yr old into the ER(his hands HOOKED behind his back) The officers told me that he was chasing around his brother(10) with a baseball bat...never actually hit the brother,just chased him. Mommy freaked out and called 911.
I agree with you,some people are terrible parents and chose to have ANYONE else deal with their kids
 
Dude.. those kids don't need a psych eval or cops, they just need a good spanking and loss of TV and Wii.
 
That depends. You are only observing that patient for a few minutes and may not know all the details. We actually have a locked wing in our Children's hospital for kids with psychotic behavior some of which makes Damien seem like a kitten. You don't often hear about them or the things they have done because they are minors. Psych disorders can appear at any age and what may just look like a behavior problem may be much more to the trained eyes of the specialists who deal with these young people. As well, suicide by kids is at an all time high again and they don't mess around with the "cry for help" as adults do. They get the job done the first time. The sooner they can get evaluated the better.

If there are family issues involved, they can be identified and the child placed in a different living situation.

As far as placing an involuntary hold even when a patient is willing to go along as voluntary, people who are desparate may say anything. They know as a voluntary check-in, they can also check out. However, if there is an identifible threat, those with the authority may have no other choice but to place the involunatry hold or face penalties/scrutiny for not following through if something bad happens to the person or others. The person is entitled to a full evaluation as well as a hearing by professionals and may be released or the involuntary committent can be turned into voluntary.
 
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In the beginning of my career I refused to bring in a 5 year old to the pysch hospital because I disagreed with the hold. In California, section 5150 of the Welfare and Institutions code is a 3 day (72 hour) pysch hold. So, I got a write up and the kid went in handcuffs with the police. This probably caused more harm to the child, and I look back on it as a mistake. However, I still blame the parents for most of these kids.
 
VentMedic said:
That depends. You are only observing that patient for a few minutes and may not know all the details. We actually have a locked wing in our Children's hospital for kids with psychotic behavior some of which makes Damien seem like a kitten. You don't often hear about them or the things they have done because they are minors. Psych disorders can appear at any age and what may just look like a behavior problem may be much more to the trained eyes of the specialists who deal with these young people. As well, suicide by kids is at an all time high again and they don't mess around with the "cry for help" as adults do. They get the job done the first time. The sooner they can get evaluated the better.

If there are family issues involved, they can be identified and the child placed in a different living situation.

As far as placing an involuntary hold even when a patient is willing to go along as voluntary, people who are desparate may say anything. They know as a voluntary check-in, they can also check out. However, if there is an identifible threat, those with the authority may have no other choice but to place the involunatry hold or face penalties/scrutiny for not following through if something bad happens to the person or others. The person is entitled to a full evaluation as well as a hearing by professionals and may be released or the involuntary committent can be turned into voluntary.
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I'm sure there are children with psych disorders but there are also children who act out because parents inability or refusal to deal with the child's bad behavior until it escalates and the cops are called.

Some kids are crazy, I'm sure, but I'm also positive some kids are just plain spoiled with bad parents.
 
Chronic hickory deficiency

Resistant to Ritalin, Adderall, Strattera, and Clonidine? Perhaps your precious little snowflake doesn't have ADHD after all.
 
Yes we are, and the medical field isnt helping any by medicating and hospitalizing every child that steps out of line.
 
I've never transferred a kid on an involuntary psych hold, but I did bring a 7 year old into the ED in full restraints, strapped down, with a c-collar on and a "spit net" over his head. The c-collar prevents biting (which he tried to do multiple times) and the spit net is a very loose mesh net that the pt can see through and doesn't inhibit breathing, but they can't spit through it.

The kid had been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder, and had been admitted to the children's psych ward here 5 times, and was rapidly heading towards his 6th when I transported him. His parent had called because the kid went wild in the car and attacked the driver to the point he drew blood, and the driver could no longer safely drive with him in the car. The kid definitely had some extreme problems.

That all being said, when I was a Paramedic student I was working with the medical director of our program on an ED shift, and she flipped out when a TWO YEAR OLD was discovered to be on THREE heavy duty adult psych meds after being diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. She had some very choice things to say to the mother, and she also promptly called the perscribing MD and read him the riot act. She then also reported him to the state medical board, along with the clinic he worked for, and both him and the mom to child services. (She was NOT happy).

She did allow the doc to offer up a justification for it which was that the kid had "unpredictable" and "severe" mood swings. At two. Poor kid was so knocked out he was barely interacted with anything at all. Just as an FYI to why he was in the ED mom had brought him in because she had accidently stepped on his foot and wanted it x-rayed.
 
Sasha said:
Dude.. those kids don't need a psych eval or cops, they just need a good spanking and loss of TV and Wii.
Click to expand...

Sasha heaven forbid that might happen thats something that worked on our generation....I see so many spoiled out of control brats taht just need a good whoopin and a loss of something that they love to start to straighten them out...but that is not PC anymore....
 
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