ITLS vs. ATT

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jccilm

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The school I'm going too includes a number of certifications in the paramedic program. One that I was sort of looking forward too was ITLS (already got the book and everything:wacko:). Anyway they have said they are switching over to ATT (Assessment and Treatment of Trauma). But because a lot of the class already purchased the ITLS manual they will be letting us vote on whether we will be taking ITLS or ATT.

ATT is put out by the AAOS, which also produces (Jones and Bartlett are the publishers) our classes EMT and Medic textbook, Emergency Care and Transport and Emergency Care in the Street. I sense a disturbance in the force.

Anyway I was looking forward to ITLS (BTLS) because most medic job openings in my state (NC) ask that you have ITLS/BTLS, and not ATT, which I gather is relatively newer (2009-2010) and (joy) apparently comes in Basic-ATT and Advanced-ATT.

My question I guess is, has anyone gone through the ATT course as a Instructor or Student and what were there thoughts? Anyone also taken ITLS and can compare?

Personally I like the ITLS manual better, but then I have no experience. The J&B AAOS Text for the EMT class I've been taking has not been a good read in comparison.
 
AAOS books are worse than useless. They take perfectly good blank paper and ruin it with all that AAOS crap.
 
The proliferation of new card courses is a ridiculously stupid money grab by certain people and cheapens the knowledge that's contained.

I've never heard of ATT and wonder how widely recognized it would be. I did take BTLS/ITLS for years, it's a decent program. I feel that PHTLS is slightly better. No matter what, you'll get out if it what you put into it.
 
Melclin said:
AAOS books are worse than useless. They take perfectly good blank paper and ruin it with all that AAOS crap.
Click to expand...

ya, i spent a good grand for my paramedic program on the orange-topped AAOS books. Can just anyone write for them? Don't even get me started on that Nancy Caroline garbage...

I have my 'ATT' (and AT&T) - no one has ever heard of it and have been told I should get my PHTLS/ITLS
 
I see once again the traditionalistic closed minds of EMS have reaered their ugly heads, lol.

Everyone has an opinion on a text, whether it be AAOS, Brady, or Mosby. What I find interesting about some of these responses are the one's from the STUDENTS who are critiquing information that they have yet to gain a comprehension on. Let me offer a different perspective on this matter......


I am an instructor and course coordinator for all three trauma courses. Each have individual and unique characteristics. Each has a preference in the minds of those who set the individual standards for their organization. Translation: which ever course the hiring manager wants will be the one the you need to have. There are many agencies out there that accept ATT, including several air medical providers. Why? Because smart people who look beyond the typical simplistic b!tching about some irrelevant aspects of a course truly understand the "why's" of this educational offering. ATT holds an advantage as it is the only 1 day course, thus reducing OT and operational down time. It also is a more cost effective for agencies than PHTLS and ITLS as it reduces required instructor pay and facility cost. The online portion of the course is the same material presented in both of the other two. The material is presented in a more interactive format and is more consistent in that presentation. Fact: Every student walks away with the SAME knowledge base vs. the potential inconsistencies between instructors who tend to place opinions or "war stories" into their presentations. Unfortunately, there are many ITLS and PHTLS instructors that lack the "hows and why" of teaching as the have not received fromal instruction in the methodologies of adult learning. Jones and Bartlett has identified this huge deficiency and has eliminated that concern through the use of appropriate online fromat that again holds consistency and applies the rote principles of adult learning. Don't believe me, well guess what, the AHA is doing it too. Have you noticed the increase in online learning for BLS, ACLS, and PALS? Is it perhaps plausible that once again, EMS has gotten a bit too big in the cranium and has once again failed to offer these courses in the intended content and structure. I'll answer that one for you, yes they have! I have taught hundreds of AHA courses with RN's, Physicians, and Paramedics. there is a huge difference in the delivery of educaiton between the three. Don't get me wrong, that are some great Paramedic educators, but the ratio is not nearly as high as other professional fields that require EDUCATION and a defined foundation before they instruct others.

Online adult learning is a strong trend and tool that will expand in its popularity. It is quite beneficial as it requires accountability on the part of the student to maintain motivation vs. relying on the instructor. When you directly coorelate this to EMS education, you have the potential to eliminate several aspects of our deficient training processes.

Just food for thought...........

Here is another interesting read on the subject for those interested.

http://www.elearnmag.org/subpage.cfm?section=research&article=10-1

While I try to keep my responses generic and insightful for all, I do have to switch to personal mode for a moment.

Mikie, Do you even know who Dr. Nancy Caroline was? If not, here is some background from her obituary, maybe you can take a moment to educate yourself before you tramp your foul comments on an EMS legend's grave. Your last statement was completely uncalled for and out of line.

http://www.post-gazette.com/obituaries/20021221caroline2.asp
 
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Thanks Flight-LP for the insight. I was aware of some of the things that you had mentioned, at least by the promotional material from ATT. Right now every dime I spend on these courses is my own. The nice thing about my state, and I don't know about the others is that a lot of the programs allow you to claim affiliation with an EMS service or system in the state in order to get fees reduced or eliminated. We still have to cover the books.

I know that once I get out of my medic program and get a job, or get on with a volunteer service as an EMT-B that I'll be able to claim affiliation and this stuff won't weigh me down so much. If we didn't take ATT, I would probably take it in the coming year anyway.

The problem I guess I'm concerned about is that most resumes or applications going large services, one of the ones I want to apply to is pretty large, have to go to a HR person first. And they'll check off negligible experience and not the right set of courses and kick my app to the round filing cabinet. Eh, it will probably work that way any how.

Our school has good instructors. I have confidence that they are experienced in the field and education wise to present the material as good as can be done. But it is good to hear that they cover much of the same material.
 
Haha, do you reckon they put, "Reduces operational costs associated with training - NEJM" on the back cover of harrison's internal medicine.

Little anecdote about the AAOS trauma something-or-other work book. Before I started my degree I worked in the university bookshop. I was considering the paramedic course and happened upon the AAOS trauma book. I reckon I was able to answer about 30-40% of the questions accurately with no medical training beyond a pathological obsession with scrubs and the occasional episode of medical emergency under my belt. Not because I'm any kind of wonderful, just a bit of common sense and process of elimination.

Reminds me now, of the NREMT questions. "Patient with depressed resps, pinpoint pupils, and altered conscious state, the appropriate drug treatment is: A- Beer, B- Prayer, C-Narcan, D-no treatment required, pt just needs to suck it up."
 
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