Internal Defibrilators AICD

Speedylifsavr

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If a pt has an AICD in place and it is firing . You put them on the monitor and they are having runs of VT should you give them antiarrhythmics to supress the arrhythmia or let the defibrilator do its job?

Lets say the pt is conscious and alert and the pt is not converting with multiple shocks from the AICD .

Or lets say he does convert with the AICD....would you want to do a bolus/drip afterwards?
 
Lidocaine, or I suppose Amiodarone if that's what you protocols call for.

The last time I had a patient like this, we gave him Versed to relax him, monitored his airway and respirations, and then gave 100mg of Lidocaine followed by an infusion.

It worked quite well for him.
 
Or you could try anti-tachycardic pacing (i.e. overdrive or burst pacing). Drop the rate down to around 140ish and start an antiarrhythmic. I wouldn't just let the "defibrillator do its job" because in this case, the defibrillator really doesn't have a job. Unsync'd defibrillation may do more myocardial damage. If pacing or meds doesn't improve the condition, then sedate if possible and cardiovert.
 
I would recommend temporarily disabling tachy therapy with a ring magnet to see what you've got and allow the underlying rhythm to stabilize since repeated ICD shocks can irritate the heart. Make sure you're dealing with ineffective ICD shocks as opposed to inappropriate ICD shocks (either way I would apply a ring magnet). Most common reason for inappropriate ICD shocks is AF. Since heart failure with low EF is an indication for an ICD and AF and bundle branch blocks frequently accompany heart failure, wide and fast rhythms will often be associated with ICD shocks whether it's true VT or not which can make this confusing to deal with. Just remember Einstein's definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result). If shocks 13, 14, and 15 didn't convert the rhythm (or the rhythm keeps going back into VT) then what makes you think shocks 16, 17, and 18 will do the trick? ICD shocks are not benign events. They traumatize the patient and they deplete the battery life of the device. So if you wouldn't shock it over and over, you probably shouldn't let the ICD shock it over and over. That's assuming you carry a ring magnet and have a Medical Control Physician who supports its use (which often isn't the case since many emergency physicians aren't comfortable with these situations either). I would customize therapy to the underlying problem. For example, if the patient is hypokalemic and has a prolonged QT-interval that is triggering runs of Torsades, the shocks aren't going to work until the electrolyte problem is fixed. For the recent case a paramedic in my department dealt with, the ICD was disabled in the field (which stabilized the rhythm) and amiodarone was given in the emergency department. If you don't carry a ring magnet then consider sedating the patient like TOTWTYTR did for his patient. That may be the most humane thing you can do under the circumstances (along with treating the underlying problem with an appropriate antiarrhythmic).

Tom
 
In our case it was VT with pulses, although when they queried his AICD in the ED, the MD (going for alliteration here) thought that the complexes were too narrow to be VT. Her take was that it was strictly the rate that started the cycle of defibs. That was from looking at the data recorded by the AICD before we started treatment.

The Versed calmed him right down. After the Lidocaine was administered, the VT (or whatever it actually was) resolved.

I don't know that we see enough of this to make acquiring and getting trained in using the ring magnets (I know it's not that expensive) worth while.

I can tell you that the barrage of AICD discharges were incredibly traumatic on the patient. Not to mention me and my partner. We really thought that the patient was going to arrest on us.


I would recommend temporarily disabling tachy therapy with a ring magnet to see what you've got and allow the underlying rhythm to stabilize since repeated ICD shocks can irritate the heart. Make sure you're dealing with ineffective ICD shocks as opposed to inappropriate ICD shocks (either way I would apply a ring magnet). Most common reason for inappropriate ICD shocks is AF. Since heart failure with low EF is an indication for an ICD and AF and bundle branch blocks frequently accompany heart failure, wide and fast rhythms will often be associated with ICD shocks whether it's true VT or not which can make this confusing to deal with. Just remember Einstein's definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result). If shocks 13, 14, and 15 didn't convert the rhythm (or the rhythm keeps going back into VT) then what makes you think shocks 16, 17, and 18 will do the trick? ICD shocks are not benign events. They traumatize the patient and they deplete the battery life of the device. So if you wouldn't shock it over and over, you probably shouldn't let the ICD shock it over and over. That's assuming you carry a ring magnet and have a Medical Control Physician who supports its use (which often isn't the case since many emergency physicians aren't comfortable with these situations either). I would customize therapy to the underlying problem. For example, if the patient is hypokalemic and has a prolonged QT-interval that is triggering runs of Torsades, the shocks aren't going to work until the electrolyte problem is fixed. For the recent case a paramedic in my department dealt with, the ICD was disabled in the field (which stabilized the rhythm) and amiodarone was given in the emergency department. If you don't carry a ring magnet then consider sedating the patient like TOTWTYTR did for his patient. That may be the most humane thing you can do under the circumstances (along with treating the underlying problem with an appropriate antiarrhythmic).

Tom
 
I'll side with 'Too Old'.

If the pt is relatively stable, get your line and make the pt as comfortable as possible ( it won't be great.. either way ). Get the pts pacemaker info card and have it with you during transport. Most pacemakers these days are programmed to do thier job well, let it. Step in when it does not look like it is serving the pt anymore ( like... becoming more unstable ).

If they convert, YEAH! monitor them. Lidocaine drip should be reserved if you bolused them with lido and they converted.
Thier pacemeker will kick in again if needed.

If they don't convert... step in.
 
Alliteration? No kidding! I thought you were Eminem for a second! That's a white guy who raps BTW. B)

Tom
 
pacemaker-mediated tachycardia. They have courses on this.

We used to have magnets, but they pulled them off of our units due to the newer technology that they have these days. Occasionally, some pts have them at home in a kit. But requires us to have an inservice class in thier use in order for us to use them.

They make great fridge magnets....
 
Over the weekend I was finishing up some paperwork and witnessed a private company bring in a pt who's AICD had fired (appropriately) ~ 40 times during t/p. They'd given Amio during t/p which had been ineffective. Watching this poor pt being automatically defibed was something else. The terrified look on his face, knowing it was coming again.... sedation will be high on my list of priorities in dealing with "Defib Storm" pt's in the future.
 
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