American Paramedic interested in Australia or NZ

[enjoynz]

Hey everyone.

I'm currently a paramedic from Southern California in the US. I'm interested to know what the process would be if one were looking to relocate to either one of the wonderful nations of Australia (i.e. prison colony) or New Zealand (i.e. sheep colony).

What, exactly, would I have to do? Is there any sort of mechanism for reciprocity? Would I have to complete an Aussie or NZ approved paramedic course (as I understand it, these are usually bachelor-degree appropriate). What if I have a degree in EMS? How is the job market for paramedics in your respective countries?

Thank you guys so much for any input.

Well to cut through all the above drama's. It's not easy to get into the New Zealand Ambulance Service if you are from another country.
And basically if you are looking at working as a paramedic (Advanced Paramedic) here.
You would need to go through our training or maybe a commonwealth paramedic degree at university.
I know of a lady from England that is a member of this site. That finished her degree in England, then came to NZ, so it can be done.
As far as Working for St John Ambulance.Contrary to what other people are saying.
There is nothing wrong with the services and procedures that are in place in NZ, apart from being under staffed.
From memory St John only covers Western Australia as an Ambulance service there.
If it's the money you are after. Australia pays better than NZ from what I've heard.
Mr Brown has already posted the links, so there is no use in my attaching them again.

Happy hunting!

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[Scott33]

Well, both countries have their similarities and differences as far as immigration goes. The role of the paramedic is a good example of how they differ.

Australia looks like the easier option, as "Paramedic" is one of the jobs recognized for possible immigration purposes (see link), not so for NZ.

http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/i/intensive-care-ambulance-paramedic-3491-13.htm

QAS have been actively recruiting from the UK to make up their numbers for a while, and I know a few Brits who have made the move. Although of no help to you, it shows how serious they are about recruitment from the outside.

You mentioned the possibility of getting a degree in EMS before you look to move. This could only help your cause as can be seen here:

http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/recruitment/priorqual.asp

Pity you are not an RN as things would be much easier, and NZ would still be an option.

Good luck, and please keep your online research to dot.gov type websites. There are a lot of immigration scammers out there.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Well thank you so much to everyone who has replied! I apologize for the inordinate delay but I've been relatively swamped at school here.

I would first like to say that I take no offense at the "bashing" (for lack of a better term) of the American EMS system. I couldn't agree more that it is vastly inadequate, so you've not hurt anyone's feelings in stating the obvious.

Also, I am in the process of obtaining a B.Sc. in EMS so would this count for something? Would I still have to complete a similar degree in Oz or NZ? Or could the curriculum I had to complete just be reviewed, assessed, and determined to be "equivalent" or not? I'll be searching through the links many of you were kind enough to provide to try and answer my own questions, but always appreciate the input of living breathing human beings who are already involved. Thanks again so much to all.

 

[Melclin]

Well thank you so much to everyone who has replied! I apologize for the inordinate delay but I've been relatively swamped at school here.

I would first like to say that I take no offense at the "bashing" (for lack of a better term) of the American EMS system. I couldn't agree more that it is vastly inadequate, so you've not hurt anyone's feelings in stating the obvious.

Also, I am in the process of obtaining a B.Sc. in EMS so would this count for something? Would I still have to complete a similar degree in Oz or NZ? Or could the curriculum I had to complete just be reviewed, assessed, and determined to be "equivalent" or not? I'll be searching through the links many of you were kind enough to provide to try and answer my own questions, but always appreciate the input of living breathing human beings who are already involved. Thanks again so much to all.

No trouble grey. I assume by B.Sc. you mean a bachelor of science. How does that work exactly. What does your curriculum involve? I didn't think structured Bachelor degrees in EMS were available over there. I would imagine with an actual bachelors degree from a recognised university would mean the world the employing agency. There'd still be a lot of learning to do about the different system and the different approach, but with a recognised Bachelors degree, I'd imagine the process would be dramatically different to if you had a patch from a medic mill. What exactly that process would involve I'm not sure, but I imagine here in Vic at least, you may simply be able to apply for employment as a graduate paramedic (internship) just like we do when we graduate. You'd be practicing at the level of an Ambulance Paramedic, which is not ALS as you'd know it (refer to my previous post for levels) and you'd have a Clinical Instructor on your back. But who knows, you might be allowed to go straight into the MICA (ALS) grad school, if they really like your degree and your experience, but I just can't see that happening really (what with the disdain for the American system that exists here).

 

[thegreypilgrim]

No trouble grey. I assume by B.Sc. you mean a bachelor of science. How does that work exactly. What does your curriculum involve?

Yeah I mean bachelor of science. Here's a link to the program description which briefly outlines all the courses that are involved with it. Yeah it is a Christian school, but it's accredited and recognized (so just ignore all the religion stuff ).

I didn't think structured Bachelor degrees in EMS were available over there.

They are few and far between, but they do exist. Here's a listing of accredited colleges/universities with EMS/Health Science degrees.

I would imagine with an actual bachelors degree from a recognised university would mean the world the employing agency. There'd still be a lot of learning to do about the different system and the different approach, but with a recognised Bachelors degree, I'd imagine the process would be dramatically different to if you had a patch from a medic mill. What exactly that process would involve I'm not sure, but I imagine here in Vic at least, you may simply be able to apply for employment as a graduate paramedic (internship) just like we do when we graduate. You'd be practicing at the level of an Ambulance Paramedic, which is not ALS as you'd know it (refer to my previous post for levels) and you'd have a Clinical Instructor on your back. But who knows, you might be allowed to go straight into the MICA (ALS) grad school, if they really like your degree and your experience, but I just can't see that happening really (what with the disdain for the American system that exists here).

Well, that is certainly very encouraging! And yes I imagine there would still be quite a bit of orientation to the Australian system to do, but that's fine with me. It would be awesome to go right into the MICA program, but honestly I'd be happy with Ambulance Paramedic (so odd that the education for this is greater but I already perform many of the MICA paramedic skills). I imagine that the greater difficulty would stem from immigration issues, but after looking at the links (here and here) helpfully provided by Scott33 it seems like there is a process set up for this. I would even be happy with a temporary work visa at the moment.

And also I know you don't mean any offense by it, but not all American paramedic programs are "medic mills". Not to toot my own horn, but the one I went to is rather notorious around here for how challenging it is. I ended up taking a college anatomy class right after having finished medic school, and the only thing I ever had to study for was the histology slides. The rest was a breeze and I got an A for the course. Also, there are EMS systems here (even here in dreadful southern California) which are very progressive and essentially allow their medics to function independently. See, for example, the protocols for ICEMA (Inland Counties Emergency Medical Agency) or North Coast EMS.

Again, I agree with your general point about things being done backasswards here. Just saying there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[MrBrown]

Your program looks more or less on-par with ours but here it's only three years as we have no general education requirements.

As for the protocols, they are quite different as I've scanned them briefly; they all include reference to base hospital contact which again, is not required here. That is why we are more restrictive than the US at least; we are expected to have the knowledge to know how to operate independantly and not have to make contact with a physician.

I've gotten some more information on the new system we are moving to and it's in a holding phase until 2011 when the new qualifications (Degree and Post-Graduate certificate) come out.

There is an exepectation that the current Bachelors Degree will remain as it is and that will facilitate the possibility of applying for paractice as a Paramedic (ILS).

We are also in the very early stages of developing a national scope of practice and doing a workforce assessment to see if registration under the Health Practitioners Competency Assurance Act is what the ambulance services here want.

This is expected at some point in the future and until then your likely to be employed as an Ambulance Technician and have to work up and challenge authority to practice at various levels.

With the other services I don't know, Wellington Free may let you come in at one of thier crazy levels (they have seven) and move you up. If I were you I'd look there, they are a smaller and more progressive service.

Check them out at www.wfa.org.nz

 

[Melclin]

so odd that the education for this is greater but I already perform many of the MICA paramedic skills

Isn't it. To be perfectly honest you don't need the three year degree to be an ambulance paramedic. In fact some of the degrees now allow you to start your internship after 2 years and let you complete some of the less critical subjects concurrently which I think is pretty decent. I don't doubt for a second that you could fly over here tonight and be an excellent ambulance paramedic (a lot of APs are idiots anyway).

The extra education means though that you have a good grounding if you want to go further to MICA or the new "Paramedic practitioner" levels. These are the kinds of roles, as we've been saying, where, because you are not differing authority for quite complex and dangerous treatments you really need to the education to back it up. When you call MICA you aren't calling because they can do cool skills that you can't, you're calling, often, for their expertise and experience more than anything.

Having looked at your curriculum and understanding that you are experienced at what is effectively the MICA level, Ambulance Victoria would have rocks in their heads not to let you simply apply for employment directly as an ambulance paramedic and/or direct entry into the MICA course (you can work concurrently).

And also I know you don't mean any offense by it, but not all American paramedic programs are "medic mills"

I realize that. I don't doubt, given that you have made the effort to be formally educated to a much higher level than is required, that you are a cut above many of your peers. The reason I mention the disdain with which American paramedics in general are held, is because the prejudice might effect you the path you may have to take. Other than personal opinions, the system may simply be set up to as "UK/Canadians=Okay, Americans=must do extra education" so I was explaining why, but hopefully not.

Hopefully its not a problem. Honestly, if you met some of the graduates here going off to work and saw how little clue they have after three years, you would realize how much of a travesty it would be if they didn't let you straight into a job as an Ambulance Paramedic.