Is EMS Medicine or Public Safety or both

[ResTech]

I think were debating on two different wavelengths... Again... the question posed was to seek PERSONAL OPINION on what individuals thought EMS was!!! and to me its BOTH. I don't know about you, but I have performed a deal of public safety over my decade and a half of EMS service. I know what my death benefits are, I know 9/11 raised question and concern with EMS. More power to you for knowing the ins and outs of what constitutes a technical and all official Public Safety person.

Its like arguing if EMS is all about medicine, rescue, or both... guess since EMS is all about strictly medicine we have to be confined to that and not be able to offer other services that will enhance public safety and services delivered.

This has turned into such a dumb argument.

 

[el Murpharino]

I think were debating on two different wavelengths... Again... the question posed was to seek PERSONAL OPINION on what individuals thought EMS was!!! and to me its BOTH. I don't know about you, but I have performed a deal of public safety over my decade and a half of EMS service. I know what my death benefits are, I know 9/11 raised question and concern with EMS. More power to you for knowing the ins and outs of what constitutes a technical and all official Public Safety person.

Its like arguing if EMS is all about medicine, rescue, or both... guess since EMS is all about strictly medicine we have to be confined to that and not be able to offer other services that will enhance public safety and services delivered.

This has turned into such a dumb argument.

I don't care about the public's safety...I do care about my own safety, however

 

[cbjfan]

I think were debating on two different wavelengths... Again... the question posed was to seek PERSONAL OPINION on what individuals thought EMS was!!! and to me its BOTH. I don't know about you, but I have performed a deal of public safety over my decade and a half of EMS service. I know what my death benefits are, I know 9/11 raised question and concern with EMS. More power to you for knowing the ins and outs of what constitutes a technical and all official Public Safety person.

Its like arguing if EMS is all about medicine, rescue, or both... guess since EMS is all about strictly medicine we have to be confined to that and not be able to offer other services that will enhance public safety and services delivered.

This has turned into such a dumb argument.

I agree with ResTech, some people have forgotten it was personal opinion. I know what the DOJ says, and yes Vent thats fine. However, how can I, and my agency as well as many others, be strictly medical if we do extrication? There is nothing medical about cutting open a car.

 

[VentMedic]

, be strictly medical if we do extrication? There is nothing medical about cutting open a car.

Extrication? Public Safety?

Extrication comes after the MVC or whatever. It is plain and simple a means of gaining access to a patient for medical purposes as most levels.

 

[cbjfan]

Extrication? Public Safety?

Extrication comes after the MVC or whatever. It is plain and simple a means of gaining access to a patient for medical purposes as most levels.

I didn't say that it was public safety, I simply said that extrication is not medical. The medic in the car doing patient care while we are cutting is medical, but the guys with the jaws and such are not doing anything medical...well maybe its car surgery.

 

[VentMedic]

I didn't say that it was public safety, I simply said that extrication is not medical. The medic in the car doing patient care while we are cutting is medical, but the guys with the jaws and such are not doing anything medical...well maybe its car surgery.

Doctor uses ring cutter to get someone's finger out of a ring. Extrication? Medical or not?

 

[cbjfan]

Doctor uses ring cutter to get someone's finger out of a ring. Extrication? Medical or not?

Fire Fighter uses a pry bar to open a locked screen door at a house where there is a person trapped in the burning house. Medical or not?

 

[VentMedic]

Fire Fighter uses a pry bar to open a locked screen door at a house where there is a person trapped in the burning house. Medical or not?

Fire Fighter? Is the person in need of medical care after being rescued? Is the FF also a Paramedic? Is there an area at the scene established for medical treatment by Paramedics? Are the Paramedics provided by a separate EMS agency?

When a FF is at a fire scene and assigned to fire fighting duties, that is his/her only responsibilty along with getting people out of burning buildings. If the FFs are also Paramedics, one of them will be assigned to patient care and will not be fighting the fire as long as there are patients.

 

[fortsmithman]

Doctor uses ring cutter to get someone's finger out of a ring. Extrication? Medical or not?

In my neck of the woods it's an RN who would use the ring cutter not the physician. I use the word physician because here in northern Canada we get british trained physician who's degree is MB (Bachelor of Medicine) not MD.

 

[cbjfan]

Fire Fighter? Is the person in need of medical care after being rescued? Is the FF also a Paramedic? Is there an area at the scene established for medical treatment by Paramedics?

The fire fighter is a first responder, and the person is in a house thats on fire. It makes as much sense as you talking about a doctor cutting a ring off of somebody's finger.

 

[VentMedic]

In my neck of the woods it's an RN who would use the ring cutter not the physician. I use the word physician because here in northern Canada we get british trained physician who's degree is MB (Bachelor of Medicine) not MD.

We're a teaching hospital. The doctors are hands on.

The nurses may also have 10 - 15 other patients each to be concerned about while we have an endless supply of med students and residents.

 

[fortsmithman]

So far we've had paramedics who are also nurses and respiratory techs say EMS is medicine. What about physicians when I say physicians I mean the ones who have never been a EMT or paramedic who just only has medical school under their belts. Would they say public safety or medicine or both. Whether or not EMS is either of the 3 is up to the individual agency. For those that say they would never do public safety and your agency says do public safety and the medic says nope. Then that medic may be either released from that service or have their shifts cut back, or transferred to ift from 911. Like i stated earlier in this post it's agency dependent on what EMS is.

 

[fortsmithman]

We're a teaching hospital. The doctors are hands on.

The nurses may also have 10 - 15 other patients each to be concerned about while we have an endless supply of med students and residents.

Here at our town's hospital there would be some days when we have no physician in town. When that happens if a pt needs to be admitted then they are air medevaced to our territorial capital. Here in the north our RNs work acute care, long term care, ambulance dispatch, and ER and these are all done by the same RN.

 

[cbjfan]

So far we've had paramedics who are also nurses and respiratory techs say EMS is medicine. What about physicians when I say physicians I mean the ones who have never been a EMT or paramedic who just only has medical school under their belts. Would they say public safety or medicine or both. Whether or not EMS is either of the 3 is up to the individual agency. For those that say they would never do public safety and your agency says do public safety and the medic says nope. Then that medic may be either released from that service or have their shifts cut back, or transferred to ift from 911. Like i stated earlier in this post it's agency dependent on what EMS is.

I agree 100%!!! It is completely agency based, yes we know what the DOJ and some states say. However, it is local government and agency based. The city I work for has a Director of Public Safety, he has 3 agencies that answer to him and they are: police, fire, and ems.

 

[fortsmithman]

Also as I stated earlier the federal government here in Canada has declared EMS to be a public safety occupation. So that makes up both medical and public safety here in Canada at least.

 

[VentMedic]

So far we've had paramedics who are also nurses and respiratory techs say EMS is medicine. What about physicians when I say physicians I mean the ones who have never been a EMT or paramedic who just only has medical school under their belts. Would they say public safety or medicine or both. Whether or not EMS is either of the 3 is up to the individual agency. For those that say they would never do public safety and your agency says do public safety and the medic says nope. Then that medic may be either released from that service or have their shifts cut back, or transferred to ift from 911. Like i stated earlier in this post it's agency dependent on what EMS is.

Let's not forget you also have those of us replying who have a FF background with degrees in Fire Science or Public Safety as well as a medical education. There is a difference.

I'm sure Rid could also tell you about the details his degree went into for Fire Science which is usually in the College of Public Safety department in the Universities.

If an area is placing EMS under Public Safety it may be solely for the purpose of gaining benefits such as PSOB but that does not have to mean you are functioning in a public safety compacity as by definition.

 

[fortsmithman]

There are those of us who say we are both. Those of us who say medicine only. Those of us who say public safety. as well as those f us who just don't car if we're public safety, medicine or both. So people can we just agree to disagree, I still would like to read he opinions of others on the subject.

 

[VentMedic]

There are those of us who say we are both. Those of us who say medicine only. Those of us who say public safety. as well as those f us who just don't car if we're public safety, medicine or both. So people can we just agree to disagree, I still would like to read he opinions of others on the subject.

My point for making the distinctions have more to do with making some understand how the laws are made in their state as well as where their funding for staying in business might originate. To few understand the basics of how EMS and Public Safety systems function. This is also where the duty to act confusion comes into play and some of the consequences by those making like whackers with their tricked out vehicles and trauma kits can run into problems if they get injured or cause injury.

 

[fortsmithman]

My point for making the distinctions have more to do with making some understand how the laws are made in their state as well as where their funding for staying in business might originate. To few understand the basics of how EMS and Public Safety systems function. This is also where the duty to act confusion comes into play and some of the consequences by those making like whackers with their tricked out vehicles and trauma kits can run into problems if they get injured or cause injury.

That's one thing you will not find in any vehicle I may own is emergency lights and siren. I say leave them on the rig. The only ambulance radio I have is the one the service issued me I will not spend the 1500.00 it costs to buy one.

 

[EMTTim]

I think EMS providers are better with arms. I use my arms all the time.

CPR can be done just as effectively utilizing repeated headbutts to the chest. Plus, it would be three times cooler to watch. I vote for unarmed.