Which is best for me? EMT-B or Paramedic? Need help...

[PrettyInScrubs]

My ultimate goal is to become a physician assistant. I know I want to practice medicine (ER, critical care, or surgery), but chose not to pursue the MD/DO route due to being a female and future mother. I have shadowed both doctors and PAs in a variety of settings over the past year.

I realize that most PA schools either require or recommend previous medical experience. I have been battling with myself on how to get that experience. I finally decided that EMS would give me the experience I needed while allowing me to do something I enjoy.

A local community college allows me to get my EMT-B in 1 quarter, EMT-I in 2 quarters, and Paramedic in 3 quarters. I will graduate with my bachelors degree in March of 2009 and would start a program at that time, allowing me to graduate in June of 2009, August of 2009, or December of 2009, depending on which program I did.

I don't really know much about the different levels. What would my roles be as each? What would the salary be in each (on average)? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend the extra 2 quarters in school to become a paramedic (money and experience wise)? Do full time EMT jobs offer you health care benefits so I could get insurance?

My plan was to get a full time job working as an EMT of some level. I also planned to spend the summer/fall taking courses at a semester school (meaning I would have to move back to my hometown as my current location is only quarter schools and PA schools have semester based prerequisites). I planned to apply to PA school in June of 2010 and work as an EMT until I started PA school in August of 2011.

If I remained in the EMT program to become a Paramedic, I would also need to find a full time job with benefits. The EMT program at the community college is not full time each quarter so I don't qualify to stay on my dad's insurance. The community college does not offer health insurance to their students. So, that would create another problem.

Long story short:
-I will graduate in March of 2009 with a bachelors degree (psychology).
-I will apply to PA school in June of 2010.
-I will start PA school in 2011 (hopefully!)
-Between March of 2009 and June of 2010 I need to take the prerequisites to PA school (1 year of biology w/ lab for science majors, 1 year of chemistry w/ lab for science majors, anat&phys I/II with labs, 1 semester of microbiology w/ lab, 1 semester of organic chemistry w/ lab, 1 semseter of genetics). I plan to do this summer semester, fall semseter, and spring semester while holding a job that provides insurance!
-I need a full time job that provides medical insurance
-I need a full time job that gives me hands on medical experience (aka EMT)

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? Anything would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Ridryder911]

Why EMS? Why not work in a ER and get some medical exposures? Being a female & future mother is really a lame excuse of not wanting to enter medical school. Women have a higher percentage of ability to enter. You do realize most PA programs are usually associated with the medical school and you will be taking the same courses as medical students, only not getting the same credit for it?

Do you have any medical experience? Again, are you really sure you want to spend a whole year in didactics and one year in rotations? As well, many P.A. programs do not allow one to work while attending, some may allow very little part time.

My suggestion is to work in a hospital as an ER tech. You will meet other professional members such as other P.A.'s and physicians, that you may want to network with. As well, you will be exposed to more a in-depth care and procedures, you would want to be exposed to. In reality EMS, and PA clinical practice have very little in common. Most now work the non-emergency clinic side/fast track side. Also you may be exposed to areas that might spark your interest, and possible persons for future employment.

I wish you good luck!

R/r 911

 

[mikeylikesit]

Maybe the medic school might not be the best option for you since it takes a lot of studying and doesn't lead you a ton of time for a full time job. However, in medic school you get 500-600 hours of internship in the AMBO and the hospital giving you tons of experience. The basic is just splinting and vitals so not too much help in the hospital setting. The intermediate can read EKG's and start IV's along with push (a few) medications and intubate. You must first become a Basic in most places in order to get your medic or intermediate key word is most. the EMT-I would be what i recommend Because you have a easier chance of getting hired especially as an ER tech. the Medic can do a whole realm of things from minor OB to Minor Surgeries plus push a lot more drugs than the Intermediate. pay for a basic you can expect around $8 and hour to about $10 pending your location, it goes up slightly for intermediate to around $12-$13. Most medics start around $16 an hour...big surprise huh? I take it that you want to be more or less a PA in a Psychiatric setting?

 

[LucidResq]

My suggestion is to work in a hospital as an ER tech. You will meet other professional members such as other P.A.'s and physicians, that you may want to network with. As well, you will be exposed to more a in-depth care and procedures, you would want to be exposed to. In reality EMS, and PA clinical practice have very little in common. Most now work the non-emergency clinic side/fast track side. Also you may be exposed to areas that might spark your interest, and possible persons for future employment.


R/r 911

I would suggest the same, absolutely. ER techs are paid much better than those in the field with the same level of education and experience, and many hospitals absolutely love hiring nursing/PA/med students as techs.

I would check around area hospitals to see what kind of certifications they want of their techs. In my area, most of the ER techs are EMT-Bs with additional training in IV therapy and EKGs. A small percentage are CNAs (certified nursings assistants). Quite a few, I'd say at least 60% of the ones that I have met are nursing students.

I see no reason to obtain your paramedic, by the way.

If you have any questions please feel free to get in touch with me. I will be working as an ER tech soon while in school full time. I'm pre-nursing right now but I'm considering switching to pre-med.

 

[PrettyInScrubs]

Being a female & future mother is really a lame excuse of not wanting to enter medical school. Women have a higher percentage of ability to enter. You do realize most PA programs are usually associated with the medical school and you will be taking the same courses as medical students, only not getting the same credit for it?

Do you have any medical experience? Again, are you really sure you want to spend a whole year in didactics and one year in rotations? As well, many P.A. programs do not allow one to work while attending, some may allow very little part time.

I don't intend to work while attending PA school. Once a PA student, I will have my hands full and I will again have medical insurance through the school.

As a PA student, I can finish in 2 years and enter directly into the field, putting me at age 26 when I am able to start making a great salary doing what I enjoy (preferably surgery). If I were to go the MD route, I would be 28 when I finished school and 34 when I finished residency. That's 8 more years than the PA route. Additionally, as a PA I can switch specialties, work part time, take time off, etc. And yet I can still make a 6 digit salary and have half the debt with a whole lot less time in school. I've talked to and shadowed enough female doctors and PAs to know that PA is definitely the right choice for me and MD is not. Plus, PA is one of the best jobs out there right now with extremely high job satisfaction. I have yet to meet a doctor who encouraged me to pursue the MD route and I have yet to meet a PA who didn't encourage me to go the PA route.

Also, how do you get an ER Tech job? I searched the job openings pages of all the hospitals in my area and saw no postings for an ER tech position.

 

[Ridryder911]

I don't intend to work while attending PA school. Once a PA student, I will have my hands full and I will again have medical insurance through the school.

As a PA student, I can finish in 2 years and enter directly into the field, putting me at age 26 when I am able to start making a great salary doing what I enjoy (preferably surgery). If I were to go the MD route, I would be 28 when I finished school and 34 when I finished residency. That's 8 more years than the PA route. Additionally, as a PA I can switch specialties, work part time, take time off, etc. And yet I can still make a 6 digit salary and have half the debt with a whole lot less time in school. I've talked to and shadowed enough female doctors and PAs to know that PA is definitely the right choice for me and MD is not. Plus, PA is one of the best jobs out there right now with extremely high job satisfaction. I have yet to meet a doctor who encouraged me to pursue the MD route and I have yet to meet a PA who didn't encourage me to go the PA route.

Then I suggest to get a job as a scrub tech.. your interest is there. I was in a P.A. program at one time, but personally did not like the requirements being linked to a physician. Nothing wrong with the programs or P.A.'s but it was not for me.. the reason as well was not being able to work while in P.A. school. It is can be very difficult to attend studies for 5 days week and then attempt to work only one day a week.. I do agree with you also, when I was accepted to medical school one of determining factor was there was only one physician described they would do it again. Most only offered words of discouragement; enough to change my mind..

Again, good luck!

R/r 911

 

[mikeylikesit]

Also, how do you get an ER Tech job? I searched the job openings pages of all the hospitals in my area and saw no postings for an ER tech position.

Patience, they may call it something else where your from. But it is generally called an ER technician. take and EMT-B accelerated class, trust me it should be easy enough for you, then take an EMT-IV class and an EKG cert class and your set for the Tech position working in the hospital for more money and better hours.

 

[VentMedic]

I also recommend a phlebotomy cert course which will help pick up extra jobs be it as an ED tech or phlebotomist in the hosptial, clinic or research lab.

Many states are going with the national phlebotomy certification which is about 150 hours in length. I just happened to surf up a program in Ohio, which the OP lists as home, and found this amazing program and prerequisite classes. EMT-Bs take note of this.

https://www.terra.edu/PDFs/Lcc/Phlebotomy_Certificate_info_sheet_-_Semesters_12-17-07.pdf

 

[PrettyInScrubs]

I thought about both becoming an RN through the 2nd degree BSN option (4 semesters) and about becoming a surg tech (5 semesters). However, I don't have that much time to spend in school. I'd ideally like something I can finish in around 2 semesters or 3 quarters. Plus, I would have to take some extra courses to get into the BSN programs so that would make it 5 semesters anyways. I need significant experience between March of 2009 and June of 2010 because June of 2010 is when I will submit my application to the PA programs to start in Fall of 2011...

 

[VentMedic]

I thought about both becoming an RN through the 2nd degree BSN option (4 semesters) and about becoming a surg tech (5 semesters). However, I don't have that much time to spend in school. I'd ideally like something I can finish in around 2 semesters or 3 quarters. Plus, I would have to take some extra courses to get into the BSN programs so that would make it 5 semesters anyways. I need significant experience between March of 2009 and June of 2010 because June of 2010 is when I will submit my application to the PA programs to start in Fall of 2011...

If you get your BSN, you can apply to a surgical RN nurse program in a hospital. Some college may also off that alternative also and it is not 5 semesters long.

Whether you get your Bachelors in EMS or Nursing, you need to take the higher level sciences to gain entry into a good PA program. You can get an entry level job in just about any hospital if you tell them "you wanna be a nurse". You may even get into a hospital OJT surgical tech program. Most hospitals will also pay for your nursing program and possibly PA program if they utilize them. If they don't use PA, a hospital will still kick in something for tuition. Chances of an EMS employer doing that is unlikely unless it is solely for the Paramedic class.

It sounds like your future career is still mostly ideas without a true direction. Settle down and concentrate on your prerequisite science classes that can fit most higher level degrees and something will turn up once you get started.

 

[PrettyInScrubs]

I'm a bit confused? I know exactly what I want to be: a PA. The problem is that health care experience is a prerequisite to PA school and my bachelors degree in psych isn't going to get me health care experience. So I'm looking for the best and quickest way to get valuable health experience. I want to make enough money to pay rent and eat food and have medical insurance.

I'm planning on paying for PA school through financial aid and loans. I'm not expecting anyone to pay for it for me. I just want the health care experience required as a prerequisite to PA school. EMT seemed to be a relatively quick path, a job I would enjoy, plenty of work available, and benefits.

I'm not looking for a career. I'm looking to meet all the prerequisites into PA school. I will have the bachelors degree. I have a good GRE score. I have some of the prerequisites. I'm lacking the hands-on health care experience of 1,000+ hours.

I've already taken anatomy, physiology, a year of biology, and a year of chemistry. I've also taken two courses in microbiology. I took all this while I was a mirobiology major. I decided to switch to psychology to gain a view into health care and people that I wouldn't gain. I'll get all the sciences I need as prerequisites and in PA school.

So, I know what I want to do for the rest of my life. I have researched the career, shadowed, and spoken to schools. I know what I need to do to get there and I've already done most of it. I just don't know the best way to get that hands-on health care experience...

 

[LucidResq]

You have a lot of options, but I would advise against working on an ambulance because although it's health care experience, it's something totally different than the kind you need. So getting a job in the hospital is your best bet.

You can get your EMT-B and try to find a position as an ER tech.

You can get your CNA (certified nursing assistant - roughly the same length as an EMT-B course) and work on almost any floor of the hospital.

There are some positions available, sometimes they're called something like "Health Care Technician" that involve patient care and duties similar to that of a CNA but do not require a certification like a CNA or EMT-B.

I was recently offered a position as a perioperative tech... all they wanted me to have was my BLS for Healthcare Providers card (CPR/AED) and to be ready for on the job training. If I remember correctly I would've been taking patients to and from surgery and helping the scrub nurses and surgical techs.

With your psych degree you could potentially get a position as a counselor, health educator, or psychiatric technician.

There are plenty of positions available in the hospital that you could easily get. I would call up HR at a few local hospitals.

 

[Ridryder911]

I would not advise even applying for nursing school. You tell them you want to be a P.A. in a few years, you will be immidiately not even considered. There are those on waiting list for that want to be a nurse and they will prefer to talk to them..

My other recommendation is to go to the HR at the hospital and see what is open and what you qualify for. Even Psych techs are needed and most prefer those that have at least a BS in psych for those positions.

Even though most P.A. programs prefer some experience, but from what I have seen it could be in almost anything.. even some that have little to no experience.

Yet, again the whole purpose should not be just being able to get in, the reason behind the experience should be that.. experience as a health care provider. We have too many P.A. that went from zero to that position and do not know understand patient care and being in the trenches. Unalike physicians, P.A.'s do not have the same stigma or stature.

R/r 911

R/r 911

 

[PrettyInScrubs]

50 schools require medical experience (usually 1,000-2,000 hours of hands on patient care experience). Another 39 programs recommend it. The ones that don't have it has a recommend or required prerequisites usually still mention it as being helpful.

Being an EMT/Paramedic is always one of the top recommended jobs for health care experience by PA schools. I have spoken to quite a few schools who say that would be a wonderful idea.

 

[Ridryder911]

One of the top PA programs is in my state. Actually the first that required graduate degree, and is harder to enter than medical school. Yeah, they say they require patient care experience too, but alike many others I know many that barely left undergad and never had seen or a touch a patient until their last year of studies.

The reason they recommend it is because of our autonomy. That being it takes two years to become one and about another three to obtain experience needed. Alike others that have described, it would be much easier and more economical in another route. But, if you want you can apply and go through it.. Just remember our shifts are usually 24 or 12 hour and many now require a minimum number. Also you described to be a future mother? If you are pregnant or planning, EMS is not one of the best to be in as well. Most do not have light duty.

Again, good luck!

R/r911

 

[PrettyInScrubs]

I just don't have the time to spend 1-2 yaers in school, especially when I already have a bachelors degree.

I wonder if medical sales would count. I have seen them in the OR a lot when I shadowed. They talk with the surgeons, spend all day in hospitals, explain how to use their product on the patient.. hmm...

Oh and I'm only 21. No kids until after PA school!

 

[Ridryder911]

Okay, I maybe I am missing something? You need about 500 to a 1000 hours minimum which usually most schools want or at least a year or two experience dealing with patients. Real life hopefully obtaining experience and maturity. Thus the reason for requirement as well as understanding the medical hierarchy.

Sorry it now is sounds like an excuse. It is nice you to think you have your life so scheduled but chances are it may not go that way. As well, are you really sure that you are cut out for being a P.A.? How many coughs, ottitis and pelvics, and rectals do you expect to do? Sorry, but that is what you will be doing for a year....Remember, a P.A. is usually assigned tasks and patients on what physicians do not want or have time to do (the dirty jobs).

You want real experience many options have been suggested. Sales and marketing are NOT patient care areas. If I was on the board for reviewing applicants, it would even upset me to see it listed. It may give an impression that you don't want to get your hands dirty.

I don't know about your program you plan on attending but the one I attended had 450 applicants for 18 positions. My local one has over 1000+ applicants for 30 positions, so they can be very choosy. Usually the programs I have seen chose those that either had several years experience in or as a medical professional, or had connections with the institution (related or highly recommended by an PA or medical school alumnus).

Again, you might ask former graduates on suggestions...

R/r 911

 

[Arkymedic]

Okay, I maybe I am missing something? You need about 500 to a 1000 hours minimum which usually most schools want or at least a year or two experience dealing with patients. Real life hopefully obtaining experience and maturity. Thus the reason for requirement as well as understanding the medical hierarchy.

Sorry it now is sounds like an excuse. It is nice you to think you have your life so scheduled but chances are it may not go that way. As well, are you really sure that you are cut out for being a P.A.? How many coughs, ottitis and pelvics, and rectals do you expect to do? Sorry, but that is what you will be doing for a year....Remember, a P.A. is usually assigned tasks and patients on what physicians do not want or have time to do (the dirty jobs).

You want real experience many options have been suggested. Sales and marketing are NOT patient care areas. If I was on the board for reviewing applicants, it would even upset me to see it listed. It may give an impression that you don't want to get your hands dirty.

I don't know about your program you plan on attending but the one I attended had 450 applicants for 18 positions. My local one has over 1000+ applicants for 30 positions, so they can be very choosy. Usually the programs I have seen chose those that either had several years experience in or as a medical professional, or had connections with the institution (related or highly recommended by an PA or medical school alumnus).

Again, you might ask former graduates on suggestions...

R/r 911

Testifying to this as one of the 1000+ that Rid mentioned, EMS is not usually one of the areas that they particularly prefer. This is especially true for EMT-Basics. In most areas as a basic you will simply drive and actually have very little patient care experience on the streets. ER Tech is one of the best options as most have stated and you are allowed to perform many more procedures than a basic will. At one of my local hospitals, ER Techs perform 12 leads, pt care hygenie duties, IV therapy, assist with numerous procedures, etc; all of which a basic will most often be limited in exposure to. One of the reasons that most are having such a hard time is that this is their career. EMS is as :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty as it is right now because so many people treat it like a stepping stone and a job (rather than a career) that professionalism is severely lacking. I had a plan too and it did not happen the way that I had it planned, so be prepared for that as well. Life has a funny way of working out and changing. Good luck.

 

[VentMedic]

The PA program is a good option for continuing study after RT school (B.S. Cardiopulmonary) so I get to hear alot of about this from students. Many will continue to PA school shortly after graduation while working as an RRT. Although, some will chose med school instead because, as Rid mentioned, med school may be much easier to get into. The PA programs have a long waiting list of highly educated and motivated individuals who may have prepared for med school but decided to go with the PA program instead for whatever reasons. Many of these individuals will already have tested the waters of clinical experience to help them make their career choice.

Nurses with BSN degrees will have the additional option of a Masters with NP school which is again gaining momentum with the Doctorate program possibilities.

Here's University of Florida's statement on the hands-on patient care requirement.
http://www.med.ufl.edu/pap/apply/infopack.pdf

CLINICAL PREREQUISITES
The program recommends that all applicants complete the equivalent of at least one year (2000 hours) of direct (“hands-on”) patient care experience before entering the program. For applicants who are already health professionals, such as a nurse, paramedic, or respiratory therapist, the clinical experience prerequisite is, of course, the practice of your profession.

Applicants without previous health care experience are often able to get good direct patient care experience working as a medical or nursing assistant or aide in settings such as hospitals, clinics, or physicians' private practices. Applicants often complete a short nursing assistant or EMT program in order to secure paid employment while gaining clinical experience.

Other PA program information at University of Florida.

http://medinfo.ufl.edu/pa/program/program.htm

You can also contact the nation PA associations for more advice.

 

[Ridryder911]

...Applicants often complete a short nursing assistant or EMT program in order to secure paid employment while gaining clinical experience.


Isn't it ironic how they compared nurses aide with an EMT?.. Something some of us have been stating for while...

R/r911