Omg dont touch me!

[MedicPrincess]

I wouldnt mind holding her hand if it would make her feel better because it must be terrifying, but touching my leg is kind of off limits

In the end I asked her if she was cold and went to go fiddle with the controls by the captains chair.

The call was about her, I got her to her hospice comfortably, adjusted her 02 when she said it was drying out her nose, fixed her cannual with some 2x2s because her ears were irritated by it and so on and so forth, she got there smoothly. I made sure she was comfortable, I didnt embarrass her or anything by telling her that the hand on my knee makes me uncomfortable, didnt make her feel icky or gross or burdenful, nor even wince away when she sneezed in my face, she actually told me she had been transported hospital to hospital by many different people and I was the nicest to her.

So if you would not have minded holding her hand, and she was obviously scared and near the end, why would not take her hand in yours and hold it. Its obvious she was in desperate need of some physical comfort, instead you hid behind her and pretended not be be aware of her needs.

Sure you did all these "Nice" clinical things for her and took care of her immediate clinical needs, but what about her even deeper emotional needs? You would be surprised how much that simple hand holding would have meant to her.

Wasnt a long transport, 10-15 minutes. I KNOW what hospice patients do, but they shouldnt be doing it on the 10-15 minute ride to the hospice.

I happens. I have transferred hospice patients where the reports included the phrases "probably won't make it to the destination" and the like, but we were taking them home so they could be with their family when they died. If you are doing hospice transfers, get used to it. People die. How would you feel if the person died in the back of your truck while you were hiding behind them fiddling with controls when all they wanted was to have some simple human kindness prior to dieing.

 

[Ridryder911]

I think ill go on the dissent here, and agree with the OP. I was taught on no uncertain terms by my CCT RN that patients, other than comforting hand holding (with gloves), should not touch you other than that.
Its perfectly okay to be not okay with someone touching you. Period.

She better be damned glad she is NOT one of my nurses or any of the hospitals I have worked in. Nursing as well as all of medicine is a compassion business. Science is ONLY one part of it. If you can't handle the "humanistic part" then you need to get the heck out! We have enough cold, insensitive persons .. (hence usually physicians) and that is why they have very little trust from patients. Maybe, that is why we are getting the same reputation?

Wow! I would be insulted that a patient would have to ask to touch me? My space? WTF? .... Get over yourself QUICKLY! The business is a people and caring business. Those patients are clients and those clients are our patients and those patients are humans! If you can't deal with that; it's time for a career change. Really the business is NOT ABOUT THE PROVIDER IT IS ABOUT THE PATIENT!. This is not to say we should allow inappropriate contact nor abuse, but for the patient not to express appreciation or have personal contact because.... the medics personal space? Ludicurous!

If you need "your space" I believe they have some openings in the Parks and Recreation or some "factory" .. where one can be in touch with themselves and do us (the profession) and the patients a favor...get the hel* out!

 

[traumateam1]

Just wait until you get the happy drunk patient. Touching your leg will be the least of your concerns................................

Haha reminds me of a call recently. 30ish y/o F ETOH+++ and something else on board. Was doing vitals (resps, pulse, BP, etc etc) and while I was doing that she was resting her head on my arm, and running her hand up my short sleeve to my shoulder and then it got to the point where she was kissing my arm! She also was asking if I would take her home to bed and take care of her.
I'm still getting bugged about it today, and was the fist time a woman went that far on me while on duty .

To the OP's concern/question I really don't mind p/t's having physical contact with me, especially if they are going to hospice. I know they are scared to death (no pun intended) and want as much comfort as they can get, and being a health care professional I know they want contact with us.. must be our caring demeanor. If they want to rub my knee (has happened), hold my hand (of course that's happened), asked for a hug (I think everyone gets asked that) or just want to touch you in some appropriate way I personally do not mind.
I'm not to sure how long you've been an EMT but you will get this a lot, and I'm sure it will get easier and easier.. hopefully.

 

[traumateam1]

She better be damned glad she is NOT one of my nurses or any of the hospitals I have worked in. Nursing as well as all of medicine is a compassion business. Science is ONLY one part of it. If you can't handle the "humanistic part" then you need to get the heck out! We have enough cold, insensitive persons .. (hence usually physicians) and that is why they have very little trust from patients. Maybe, that is why we are getting the same reputation?

Wow! I would be insulted that a patient would have to ask to touch me? My space? WTF? .... Get over yourself QUICKLY! The business is a people and caring business. Those patients are clients and those clients are our patients and those patients are humans! If you can't deal with that; it's time for a career change. Really the business is NOT ABOUT THE PROVIDER IT IS ABOUT THE PATIENT!. This is not to say we should allow inappropriate contact nor abuse, but for the patient not to express appreciation or have personal contact because.... the medics personal space? Ludicurous!

If you need "your space" I believe they have some openings in the Parks and Recreation or some "factory" .. where one can be in touch with themselves and do us (the profession) and the patients a favor...get the hel* out!

Couldn't agree more!

I was taught on no uncertain terms by my CCT RN that patients, other than comforting hand holding (with gloves), should not touch you other than that.
Its perfectly okay to be not okay with someone touching you. Period.

I cannot believe that you were taught this, and even more practice that! People in times of crisis and uncertainty NEED physical contact WITHOUT glove. They need hugs and hand holding! If you need that much "personal space" the health care profession is not for you!

 

[MissTrishEMTB08]

You guys are unbelievable. God forbid I not want some lady touching my knee, that makes me completely compassionless and a bad EMT.

Yeah right. I have a lot of compassion for people but I have certain boundaries I dont like breached, touching my leg is off limits and there are very very very very personal reasons as to why I do not like to have my legs touched, period. I dont see how that makes me compassionless. God forbid.

And you all make it sound like she was starved for human contact, she was not. She was in the hospital for 4 days, and according to the nurse she had family there the entire time. Her daughter was there when we got there, along with her brother, hugged her goodbye. They met us at the hospice when we got there. She was not starved for human touch. I understand she is scared, that does not make violating my personal space ok.

 

[traumateam1]

Miss, that wasn't directed towards you.. you are willing to have more contact than gloved hand holding.

If you don't want any p/ts touching your knees than fine.. who are we to tell you what to do or how to treat your p/ts. No one thats who. All I am saying is if my patient wants to touch me (appropriately of course) than I don't mind. I'm not guessing or judging your patient care. However if you believe and only follow gloved hand holding, that is something of its own and is not needed. Why not hold a hand? Are they all disease ridden and suppose to be in quarantine?

Again, I am not telling you how to do your job, or judging your p/t care Miss.

 

[rhan101277]

I haven't had any experience with this yet. I would have to say I don't think I would mind, especially being that this pt. is hospice. They are afraid and trying to reach out. Some people have boundaries though I guess. Was she moving her hand up your thigh or something? Or just your knee.

I think it all depends on things that have happened to an individual as well. I had some hard times growing up.

 

[Flight-LP]

The whole asking if she was going to conk out thing was because the last hospice patient I transported died in the middle of transport, cleared by the same case worker. Wasnt a long transport, 10-15 minutes. I KNOW what hospice patients do, but they shouldnt be doing it on the 10-15 minute ride to the hospice.

What part of this are you having difficulty comprehending? HOSPICE PTS. DIE! They can do so at any time, not a damn thing you can do about it. If they do, you simply follow your SOP's for a deceased pt. It's not your decision, you cannot decide how you will and won't transport, and you certainly have no right to question someone who knows a whole heck of a lot more about this pt. than you do.

As for the touchy feely issue you have, again what are you going to do when someone grabs more than your knee? Are you going to deck them? I have had people grab, touch, spank, pinch, and caress probably every inch of my body. It happens! The unpredictable nature of this business makes this a more than rare occurance. I am not saying that people have the right to violate you, but sometimes people do peverse things. Sometimes its not even intended. Case in point..............You are sitting on the bench seat attempting to start an IV in your pts. A/C. Their arm is hanging off of the side of the stretcher between your legs. Your pt. accidently brushes their hand against your inner thigh. What now? Are you going to freak out on them? Sometimes we need to put our personal insecurities aside and see things for what they really are. As previously pointed out, this industry is not about you. You are a servant to the patient. Looking at it in any other fashion is self serving and really inapporpriate.

Honestly, either get over it or revisit yourself and your future in EMS.....................

 

[mycrofft]

OK OK break it up. (>>>

If you're not touchy-feely, that's your business, but don't be surprised when everyone here comes at you when you ventilate all- "John Wayne" with "OMG". I think a reassuring touch is a tool, and the more sincere you are with touch, the better it works. Sometimes it's OK to fake sincere if it will help the pt, just do it well.

On the other hand, when I was wearing a real tie and not a jazzbow during the first week working my first civilian ambulance, a nice little old lady reached up to pat my face, tried to climb my tie and slapped me. (No, my hand wasn't on her knee!). Judgement always. I think that if someone else has less comfort in being touched than I do, that's their business, not mine.

If you are uncomfortable with patients touching your legs etc (I would be, especially where I work!! :unsure, substitute your hand. Then YOU are touching THEM, you have control.

Beware...some pts don't want to be touched either.

PS: Sounds nice, but we are never literally the servant of the patient. We must seamlessly disregard any hangups we have which may sacrifice their care, but we are never their servant.

 

[traumateam1]

If you are uncomfortable with patients touching your legs etc (I would be, especially where I work!! )

Don't drop the soap big guy Don't you work in a jail mister? Haha... I think I'd be very uncomfortable!

 

[mycrofft]

It took me a while, we were taught never to let the inmates touch us.

For jail newbies that's a good start; rarely, it is appropriate, and then the pt is bad off enough we know there are no games going on. I do not allow them to touch me, except, rarely, to shake hands. Then I disinfect; thier environment is dirty, not their fault.

Newsflash: for a sociopath or a bully, touching you is a dominance display and allowing their touch is in their eyes an invitation to be used. But, for a little old lady on the way to hospice, (or the big burly tatted biker meth cook, who think's he's dying, with Menier's syndrome), it can be a comfort and a reassurance to them to be touched, and either can alleviate distress and promote a better outcome.

I don't shower with them.

 

[LucidResq]

As health care providers sometimes we need to to put up with a little bit of discomfort for the sake of our patients.

Whether it's listening to a horribly boring and long story, answering painfully awkward questions, helping a nurse shove a bed pan under a 300 lb + woman's bum so she can go pee, being swung at by drunk woman, being hit on by a man old enough to be your grandpa, listening to the relentless screeching wails of a sick baby, smelling the most horrid things smell-able on Earth or having some old woman put her hand on your leg for a little... it's kinda part of the job, and as others have said, having an old lady touch you in a kind, non-sexual way is pretty low on the list of "discomforting things that patients do to EMS providers" for most people.

Did she injure you, put you at increased risk for infectious disease or sexually harass you? No, so my advice would be to deal with it. I would be touched if I reminded a dying woman of one of her loved ones.

 

[MissTrishEMTB08]

What part of this are you having difficulty comprehending? HOSPICE PTS. DIE! They can do so at any time, not a damn thing you can do about it. If they do, you simply follow your SOP's for a deceased pt. It's not your decision, you cannot decide how you will and won't transport, and you certainly have no right to question someone who knows a whole heck of a lot more about this pt. than you do.

As for the touchy feely issue you have, again what are you going to do when someone grabs more than your knee? Are you going to deck them? I have had people grab, touch, spank, pinch, and caress probably every inch of my body. It happens! The unpredictable nature of this business makes this a more than rare occurance. I am not saying that people have the right to violate you, but sometimes people do peverse things. Sometimes its not even intended. Case in point..............You are sitting on the bench seat attempting to start an IV in your pts. A/C. Their arm is hanging off of the side of the stretcher between your legs. Your pt. accidently brushes their hand against your inner thigh. What now? Are you going to freak out on them? Sometimes we need to put our personal insecurities aside and see things for what they really are. As previously pointed out, this industry is not about you. You are a servant to the patient. Looking at it in any other fashion is self serving and really inapporpriate.

Honestly, either get over it or revisit yourself and your future in EMS.....................

Yes, they die but if they are that close to death they should not be being transported by ambulance, they should die where they are.

Think about your patient, would you rather die in some noisy bumpy rig or in the warm comfort of a hospital bed?

Did I hit the lady? No. Did I tell her to get the :censored::censored::censored::censored: off me? No. Did I tell her she was weird and creepy for touching me? No. Did I scream and scrub with antispetic? No.

So what is the problem with me stating I was uncomfortable with it, not even to her, but to a message board? Her care did not suffer in the least, she was pleased with the ride to the hospice, said I was the nicest one to transport her. I didnt treat her like she was plauged or diseased, I laughed and joked with her, made sure she was comfortable.

I would also like to add this woman was NOT aware that it made me uncomfortable. I didnt make it painfully obvious that her rubbing all up on my knee was making me uncomfortable, all movements away were natural, reaching for something I would use, adjust the air and lighting in the ambulance, turn to shout up something to my partner. She didnt suffer at all, wasnt made to feel uncomfortable.

I am within my right to feel uncomfortable about a situation. Being uncomfortable with something does not make compassionless or a bad EMT.

 

[reaper]

No one is saying you did wrong in the way you treated the pt. They are trying to tell you the same thing over and over.

If you are freaked out from a little old lady touching your knee, what are you going to do when the drunk grabs something a lot more personal? Or when the psych pt attacks you in the back and is grabbing everything?

They are trying to tell you that this is something you will deal with weekly. If it is that bad, then you might want to decide that now, before you are in to deep.

 

[MissTrishEMTB08]

..........................

 

[MissTrishEMTB08]

No one is saying you did wrong in the way you treated the pt. They are trying to tell you the same thing over and over.

If you are freaked out from a little old lady touching your knee, what are you going to do when the drunk grabs something a lot more personal? Or when the psych pt attacks you in the back and is grabbing everything?

They are trying to tell you that this is something you will deal with weekly. If it is that bad, then you might want to decide that now, before you are in to deep.

I dont mind being touched, but I have a hang up about people rubbing my legs/knees that stems from the way a person who did very bad things would touch me when I was younger. I am certainly entitled to feel uncomfortable about not having my knees and legs rubbed on and felt up.

But from the posts garnered here, being uncomfortable makes me compassionless, go figure.

 

[reaper]

OK, since you don't want to listen to anyone, your on your own.

I am sorry for what you went through when you were younger. What we are trying to say is simple. If it is to much for you to be rubbed on or felt up, then this may not be the job for you. It will happen. Yes, it is wrong, but it will happen.

If this is something you will always be stressing over, then you need to think about your future, or you will be stressing this the rest of your life.

 

[MedicPrincess]

Yes, they die but if they are that close to death they should not be being transported by ambulance, they should die where they are.

Think about your patient, would you rather die in some noisy bumpy rig or in the warm comfort of a hospital bed?

I would rather make the attempt to get that hospice patient to their home to be surrounded by loved ones in an eviroment they loved. I have transported patients with respirations of 4-6..... one very memorable man who died as soon as we put him in his bed at home..... people who were not expected to make to our destination.... All so they could be anywhere BUT a cold unfamiliar hospital bed that was not "home" for them. It humbles you.

As far as the right to be uncomfortable.... You absolutely have the right to feel uncomfortable. The point everyone here is trying to make to you is touching happens. If you are so distraught and upset about a scared old lady thats FTD seeking comfort during her end, then perhaps you shoudl rethink what your doing. You are going to be touched a lot more ways. Pretty much everything from your feet to your hair will be touched by a patient at some point. Your legs will be rubbed, arms stroked, breasts grabbed, butt massaged. Some intentional, some "accidental."

If you are this creeped out about a desperate old lady, you are going to have serious issues, very quickly. Some of my worst "offenders" are little old dementia men. I have been felt up more by those guys than the drunk homeless ones. Its all a matter of accepting it, redirecting their hands (usually to mine, and I HOLD THEIR HAND!), or depending on what they are touching just letting them.

 

[Flight-LP]

Yes, they die but if they are that close to death they should not be being transported by ambulance, they should die where they are.

Think about your patient, would you rather die in some noisy bumpy rig or in the warm comfort of a hospital bed?

Actually if I was offered hospice care as my final level of comfort, I would want to go to hospice. The choice isn't yours, the family, the pt. (if able), and the entire collaborative health care team is aware that the pt. may expire prior to arrival at hospice. It happens. But your opinion or assumption of what the pt. and or family wants is irrelevent. Your job is to give that person a ride there, plain and simple.........................

As far as the touchy feely issue goes, as I and others have said already, you either need to find better coping mechanisms (i.e. dealing with it) or re-evaluate your future in this industry. Bottom line, one of these days, someones going to feel you up, all peversities intended. If you cannot effectively deal with it, you may find yourself becoming unprofessional at an unopportune time and damaging your personal reputation, the organization's reputation, and the industry as a whole. You really need to think this over and determine if these personal issues will become professional ones. It sounds as though it already has........................

 

[Ridryder911]

I think your missing our entire point. I never believed you did poor care or maybe even acted rude to the patient. The point is that within your own feelings.

I had wrote a lengthy response but read from one of your responses..."I have a hang up about people rubbing my legs/knees that stems from the way a person who did very bad things would touch me when I was younger"...

This is very understandable, you have your own demons to deal with. Yet, this is not the patients. Sorry this occurred, but you need to be aware the requirements of this job demand interpersonal communications and touching. This is nothing against you, but you chose to be in this career and you are attempting to make it fit you and not you fit in it. One can either be able to handle such daily occurrences or possibly choose another career. I would give the same information for those that work with the elderly, or with handicap (Downs Syndrome) patients to expect to be touched without warning, it is just part of the job and in-fact one of the ways patients express appreciation. Again, no one is saying inappropriate touch.

I would really recommend to do some interpersonal thinking. It apparently bothers you a lot. Again, can you deal with this on a daily basis for years? It is not going to get better or go away. I do hope you really consider all the options before getting into this profession more in depth and that it requires an area you are very uncomfortable in. Time to explore many options .. good luck.