Certificate vs Associates vs Bachelors

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orange20medic

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Want some thoughts...

Anybody out there have a Bachelors in EMS (or EMS management or something that has to do with EMS)? How about an associates?

I'm currently in school to get my Associates of Applied Sciences in Emergency Medical Technology. Pretty much you take EMT-Basic, EMT-Intermediate, and EMT-Paramedic. It takes 5 semesters to finish and in addition to the EMT classes you take English, Math, Speech, Psychology, and electives. They also offer Certificate of EMT at my school which also takes 5 semesters and all you take is the EMT classes.

Besides the pay raises that some companies offer to those with Associates and Bachelors in the field, what are some benefits? What can you do with a Bachelors in EMS that you can't do with an Associates or certificate?

I'm just asking because after I get my Associates I'm thinking about going on to get my Bachelors. Any comments would be appreciated :)
 
VFlutter

VFlutter

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I would definitely get your bachelors; it will only help you in the future. One thing to think about is if you plan on pursuing any other medical career in the future. With a bachelors you can usually take accelerated programs such as a one year nursing whereas without it you would have to take a two year program.


Also it is nice to have a more diverse education. I am in nursing school and i had to complete 65 credit hours of general education before i could start actual nursing classes. This has left me with two minors and a great deal of knowledge in various fields that has really helped me.
 
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orange20medic

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Thanks! I actually do not plan on going into nursing at all. I tried that and didn't like the first semester of it. I know that isn't long, but I knew it wasn't for me. If I go farther after paramedic, I'll just go to get my CCParamedic. I'd like to start an ambulance company which would probably make it nice to have a Bachelors of Emergency Medical Management.

Know of anywhere that offers a Bachelors in the field? The only one I know that offers the Bachelors of EMM is Univ. of Pitt...
 
usafmedic45

usafmedic45

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I believe Western Carolina University and one of the schools in Kentucky (Eastern Kentucky University?) do as well. Then there is the program at University of Maryland, but the problem is that you'll be educated in Maryland which means you'll be getting clinically exposed to EMS as it was practiced about 1-2 decades ago in the rest of the country.

As far as a bachelors in "emergency management"....you might as well just get your EMT-P and a bachelors in public administration. No need to paint yourself into a corner iwth a overly specialized degree.

I'd like to start an ambulance company which would probably make it nice
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....to have a background in business, not emergency planning. Being independently wealthy also helps because of the startup and operational costs and the lack of reimbursement in many areas.
 
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rescue99

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sara22emt said:
Want some thoughts...

Anybody out there have a Bachelors in EMS (or EMS management or something that has to do with EMS)? How about an associates?

I'm currently in school to get my Associates of Applied Sciences in Emergency Medical Technology. Pretty much you take EMT-Basic, EMT-Intermediate, and EMT-Paramedic. It takes 5 semesters to finish and in addition to the EMT classes you take English, Math, Speech, Psychology, and electives. They also offer Certificate of EMT at my school which also takes 5 semesters and all you take is the EMT classes.

Besides the pay raises that some companies offer to those with Associates and Bachelors in the field, what are some benefits? What can you do with a Bachelors in EMS that you can't do with an Associates or certificate?

I'm just asking because after I get my Associates I'm thinking about going on to get my Bachelors. Any comments would be appreciated :)
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An associates in EMS with a bachelor's in public health or allied health education would do more for you in EMS probably. The long term job potential is significantly greater.
 
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Trevor

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I currently have a B.S. Emergency Health Sciences. Most places, as a field medic, you wont se much of a difference. Maybe get paid slightly more. What it does, besides the obvious of increasing your knowledge (which is very important), is it helps raise the level of education across our profession... It will also make you more marketable for managerial jobs in the future. If you want to open/run a company, then i would look at either an Mph or MBA type program. Obviously, these would be Master's Programs.

Nursing programs started offering Associates and Bachelor's programs, and now you pretty much have to have an ADN to work as a nurse. And BSN are gettign to be much more common. With any luck (and some help of the NAEMT) soon you will have to have an Associate's degree to be Paramedic!
 
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DitchDoctorGabe

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Excellent point on starting up a service usafmedic45 has; starting a service is expensive and you need to have some working capitol and expect to not make any money for a few years or just break even. If that's your dream go for it!
 
usafmedic45

usafmedic45

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bachelor's in public health
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A bachelors in public health, unless you're planning to follow on with a masters in it is all but pointless. It's no better than the emergency planning degree.

It will also make you more marketable for managerial jobs in the future. If you want to open/run a company, then i would look at either an Mph
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Seriously? Why an MPH? The programs do not go into any detail on running a business. It's like getting an MD just so you can manage a Burger King.
 
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46Young

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usafmedic45 said:
As far as a bachelors in "emergency management"....you might as well just get your EMT-P and a bachelors in public administration. No need to paint yourself into a corner iwth a overly specialized degree.
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This ^

If you look at most, if not all of the job postings within EMS for administration positions, they typically ask for a four year healthcare degree or related field, not for an EMS degree specifically. With that four year EMS degree, you won't see much if any additional financial compensation than you would with just a cert. Having the four year healthcare degree doesn't guarantee you a future supervisor position, either. Those positions are few and far between in EMS, and more often than not are subject to cronyism and nepotism. They'll interview a few people, but they've already chosen who they want. You know how that goes.
 
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Trevor

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Seriously? Why an MPH? The programs do not go into any detail on running a business. It's like getting an MD just so you can manage a Burger King.[/QUOTE]


Bit of a Hyperbole, dont ya think? MPHs are one of the most versatile and most "rounded" graduate degrees you can get in healthcare. While you're technically correct (they dont offer much in the way of "actual management" classes), a person with an MPH would be much more qualified to run an EMS department then most. The problem with EMS, in this area, is simply the lack of applicable programs. If i was going to go to graduate school (which I've been thinking about for over a year), I would get the most versatile (*read* most bang for my buck) i could... Do you need a MPH to run an EMS system? No. But then again, theer aer plenty of EMS directors/"Chiefs" without any type of degrees... (yet again another problem with our PROFESSION)
 
usafmedic45

usafmedic45

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Bit of a Hyperbole, dont ya think? MPHs are one of the most versatile and most "rounded" graduate degrees you can get in healthcare.
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But she's not talking about working in healthcare. She's talking about wanting to run a business which is not going to be within the scope of an MPH's training as "versatile and rounded" as it is.

a person with an MPH would be much more qualified to run an EMS department then most.
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Maybe...it would depend upon the individual since the degree has nothing to do with that. Have you actually looked at the curriculum? I have because that's the next step in my career before I get my doctorate in epidemiology. It's not a management degree, even if you go for the "health policy and management" specialty which is geared for those who want to work the touchy-feely side of public health, help write regulations or be a lobbyist:

15 Hour Core
P500: Social and Behavioral Health Science in Public Health
P504: U.S. Health Care Systems and Health Policy
P517: Fundamentals of Epidemiology
P519: Environmental Science in Public Health
P551: Biostatistics for Public Health

6 Hours of Practical Experience
P602: Public Health Internship
P705: HPM Final Concentration Project

12 Hours of Required Concentration Courses
P611: Policy Development, Implementation and Management
P616: Strategic Planning for Health Services Organizations
P619: Health Economics for Public Health Professionals
P658: Methods of Health Services and Policy Research

12 Hours of Public Health Courses (Choose 4 Courses From This List)
P600: Epidemiology Research Methods
P609: Infectious Disease Epidemiology
P612: Health Outcomes Research
P613: Public Health and Emergency Preparedness
P614: Program Planning in Public Health
P618: Cancer Epidemiology
P631: Maternal Child Family Health
P632: History of Public Health
P652: Biostatistics for Public Health II
P655: Historical Evolution of Epidemiology
P657: Applications of Cost Effectiveness Analysis in Public Health
Other Elective on Campus with Prior Approval from Faculty Advisor 3
Total Number of Credits for Required Courses 33
Total Number of Credits for Public Health Courses 12
Total Number of Credits for the MPH Degree 45
Updated 7/

Even when they talk about planning, management, implementation and economics, it's on a much larger scale than would be useful as an ambulance service manager or owner like this person is talking about.

If i was going to go to graduate school (which I've been thinking about for over a year), I would get the most versatile
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Well, if you're going with the goal of being a manager or running a business, the MBA is far more versatile and doesn't limit you as much. If you want a career in public health (like I do) or are wanting to do research, the MPH is a great idea. Otherwise, my analogy stands.
 
usafmedic45

usafmedic45

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And that mentality is exactly whats wrong with private EMS
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:rolleyes:

It absolutely is "working in healthcare"...
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*facepalm*

Not when you're running the business operations. Have you ever worked on that side of the field?
 
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usalsfyre

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Trevor said:
usafmedic45 said:
But she's not talking about working in healthcare. She's talking about wanting to run a business..."

And that mentality is exactly whats wrong with private EMS... It absolutely is "working in healthcare"...
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You DO realize 95% of healthcare is run like a business right? Even a fairly large percentage of third-service county EMS agencies?
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TreySpooner65

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Currently I am taking courses to get my Associates in Paramedic Studies. Basically its just like the other guy was talking about, you take EMT-B, Paramedic Theory, some other medical courses like Abnormal Psychology, Medical Terminology, etc.

After that I plan to transfer to our sister college just a town over and get my fire tech classes done. I'll be able to transfer the GE's from my first degree to the sister college and then I'll have 2 Associates (sounds pointless I know but it cant hurt for the same amount of work I'd have to do anyway).

Then I plan on working if at all possible then down the road maybe getting a BS in some kind of public management program either online or through night classes or something.
 
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usalsfyre

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Trevor said:
UNFORTUNATELY, I do realize that. That doesnt change the fact that it probably shouldnt be run like that...
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Until there's a complete change in the US's payment structure I'd expect more of this in healthcare rather than less. It sucks, but it's reality.
 
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