I'm currently training to become an EMT-B. There's no EMT-A/EMT-I course available in my area, but I want to start upping my skill set as soon as possible. ALS, PALS, and EKG classes are available locally - is it worthwhile to take these classes now? Will they improve my chances of getting a job? Give me a broader scope of practice? Up my chances of getting into an EMT-P program eventually?
ALS as an EMT-B?
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NomadicMedic
I know a guy who knows a guy.
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No, no, no and no.
ACLS, PALS and ECG interpretation are all things you'll learn in paramedic school. Can you take the classes now? Well, you can audit the classes… I don't believe you'll be able to receive a certification. It certainly won't increase your scope of practice. And most likely, you won't understand the reasoning behind most of the interventions.
You'd be better off with completing prerequisites for paramedic school, if that's your ultimate plan.
ACLS, PALS and ECG interpretation are all things you'll learn in paramedic school. Can you take the classes now? Well, you can audit the classes… I don't believe you'll be able to receive a certification. It certainly won't increase your scope of practice. And most likely, you won't understand the reasoning behind most of the interventions.
You'd be better off with completing prerequisites for paramedic school, if that's your ultimate plan.
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It's not that the material is more advanced. The concepts are simple, but the background knowledge is much more important. Continue taking the pre reqs and go above and beyond the minimum recommendations prior to paramedic school (sounds like you're off to a great start). The skill set is amongst the least important component of an EMS education.
Scope won't change until you have a higher cert, so learning the stupid monkey skills prior to being certified won't do you a whole lot of good.
I will say that additional EKG interpretation is always good, but wait until you have a solid foundation in the basics from paramedic school. After that, feel free to keep pressing on in that area!
Scope won't change until you have a higher cert, so learning the stupid monkey skills prior to being certified won't do you a whole lot of good.
I will say that additional EKG interpretation is always good, but wait until you have a solid foundation in the basics from paramedic school. After that, feel free to keep pressing on in that area!
I'm going to slightly disagree with the other respondents.
First, none of those will give you a larger scope, nor is there any significant probability of them improving your chances of getting a job or into a medic program.
That being said, they're not entirely useless....Well, ACLS would be useless for you (Except inasmuch as it might potentially allow you to anticipate your medic's needs, but honestly, you'd be better off just printing off a copy of the algorithms and memorizing them.).
PALS: I don't know for sure about PALS, since I've always done PEPP, but PEPP at least has some relevancy to BLS, a whole bunch of it deals with stuff you're not going to be able to use, but some of it is useful. Perhaps someone who is familiar with PALS can chime in here.
EKG Interpretation: If it's a EKG from scratch class, then I think you might find some value there, if it's an improve your EKG skills class, not so much. As with pretty much everything else, the key to getting good at EKG interpretation is to do it a bunch. You're not going to be able to diagnostically interpret the EKGs while you're on calls, but assuming you have a halfway decent medic, they should be willing to print off strips for you to read after the call is over, and walk you through the correct interpretation. As I said, this will have 0 impact on your pt care while you're a basic, but it will make your life easier when you hit medic school.
To continue: You might want to look for someone offering GEMS or PHTLS (or one of the equivalents), again, in each of them there's a bunch of material aimed at I/P, but there's still good stuff for basics.
Moving off the carded courses, there's almost no CE that won't offer you something, any time you can, take CEs being offered in your area. Remember, CE isn't about recerting your license, it's about being a better provider.
First, none of those will give you a larger scope, nor is there any significant probability of them improving your chances of getting a job or into a medic program.
That being said, they're not entirely useless....Well, ACLS would be useless for you (Except inasmuch as it might potentially allow you to anticipate your medic's needs, but honestly, you'd be better off just printing off a copy of the algorithms and memorizing them.).
PALS: I don't know for sure about PALS, since I've always done PEPP, but PEPP at least has some relevancy to BLS, a whole bunch of it deals with stuff you're not going to be able to use, but some of it is useful. Perhaps someone who is familiar with PALS can chime in here.
EKG Interpretation: If it's a EKG from scratch class, then I think you might find some value there, if it's an improve your EKG skills class, not so much. As with pretty much everything else, the key to getting good at EKG interpretation is to do it a bunch. You're not going to be able to diagnostically interpret the EKGs while you're on calls, but assuming you have a halfway decent medic, they should be willing to print off strips for you to read after the call is over, and walk you through the correct interpretation. As I said, this will have 0 impact on your pt care while you're a basic, but it will make your life easier when you hit medic school.
To continue: You might want to look for someone offering GEMS or PHTLS (or one of the equivalents), again, in each of them there's a bunch of material aimed at I/P, but there's still good stuff for basics.
Moving off the carded courses, there's almost no CE that won't offer you something, any time you can, take CEs being offered in your area. Remember, CE isn't about recerting your license, it's about being a better provider.
Merck
Forum Lieutenant
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Sure, you could take them. But be warned about becoming a bit of a badge collector. The greatest asset you can acquire is some experience. Seeing one person with experiencing an MI is not the same as seeing the next person with an MI. Only a bit of time and volume can teach that. I don't think education is wasted, especially when taken with good intent, but I'd be wary of collecting the scoobie-doo badges. Plenty of time in a career to learn all of those things. Trying to remember and employ more advanced concepts on a call prior to having the basic ones down-pat can lead to both things being done poorly.
Did you learn how to start IVs and I/Os in any of those classes? Or learn Emergency pharmacology, pathophysiology, fluid resuscitation, or how to calculate drug concentrations and draw up and push meds and set up a drip, do transcutaneous pacing or synchronized cardioversion, or intubation.
These aren't necessarily hard things to grasp, but you are expected to have experience with them before taking ACLS and PALS. Those classes don't teach you those individual skills from scratch, they teach how to put them all together and work them into certain situations like a code. That's why its generally assumed you're already an RN, Paramedic, Doc or some advanced provider like a PA, or at least a Paramedic student when you take those classes.
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Acls and the other merit badge classes are not really meant to teach you the info. It is a putting it together from you previous education and experience type of class. ( for the most part)
Could you take t and pass it.... Most likely.
It is kind of sad how watered down these classes have become. They have turned into an everybody gets a trophy class.
Will it help you.... Maybe but you will be better served taking your pre requs and taking the merit bade classes when appropriate.
Could you take t and pass it.... Most likely.
It is kind of sad how watered down these classes have become. They have turned into an everybody gets a trophy class.
Will it help you.... Maybe but you will be better served taking your pre requs and taking the merit bade classes when appropriate.
cfd3091
Forum Crew Member
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No kidding concentrate getting to be a real good Basic and you will be a better Paramedic when you get there.
As I've said elsewhere in the thread, I've taken a lot of science classes, including the prerequisites for most medic schools. Anatomy, microbiology, human prosection, multiple chemistry and biology electives, psych, etc. I was toying with the idea of medical school at one point, so those bases are pretty well covered.
NomadicMedic
I know a guy who knows a guy.
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Great. We all still think it a waste of time for you to take classes that won't benefit you until you're a paramedic.
cfd3091
Forum Crew Member
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How much actual hands on patient care do you have? That is what will make you a good Paramedic, hands on experience.And the experience you get hands on as a basic will come back to help you your entire career.
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Getting into paramedic school really isn't that big of a deal. Sometimes there's nothing more you need to be doing if you already are doing the college level pre-reqs and science classes. Finish the BS and good luck in medic school.
Ridryder911
EMS Guru
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Educational classes (such as PALS, ACLS, PHTLS, etc) are developed to have an understanding of national standards and emphasis upon those organizations standards, they are not developed to teach from beginning and for those not currently working in the clinical area.
Yes, as many have discussed they have definitely became watered down, and yes one probably could technically pass by attending (as emphasis is placed during the course of pointing out correct answers and wanting attendees to pass). Personally, I would not allow students not currently licensed or not soon to be into working EMS. The courses mostly require that one have a working/license to be able to use the information given.
I definitely do encourage education; but there is general understanding that one already possess and have a working knowledge prior to attending such courses. Again, don't jump ahead of yourself... really; EMS will be there when you graduate Paramedic school.
Remember, if one does so happen to be able to enter courses the expiration date is usually between 2-3 years and you would have to re-take before you finish school. These courses at one time had merit and meant something, in reality they have became courses one has to take to maintain employment and license/certifications and really nothing more.
Save your money and time, you will have to attend and these classes during or after school... and again and again.... (I have taken ACLS every 2 years since 1978).. and soon you will be like us .. dreading seeing that dang video and test again!...
Good luck,
R/r 911
Yes, as many have discussed they have definitely became watered down, and yes one probably could technically pass by attending (as emphasis is placed during the course of pointing out correct answers and wanting attendees to pass). Personally, I would not allow students not currently licensed or not soon to be into working EMS. The courses mostly require that one have a working/license to be able to use the information given.
I definitely do encourage education; but there is general understanding that one already possess and have a working knowledge prior to attending such courses. Again, don't jump ahead of yourself... really; EMS will be there when you graduate Paramedic school.
Remember, if one does so happen to be able to enter courses the expiration date is usually between 2-3 years and you would have to re-take before you finish school. These courses at one time had merit and meant something, in reality they have became courses one has to take to maintain employment and license/certifications and really nothing more.
Save your money and time, you will have to attend and these classes during or after school... and again and again.... (I have taken ACLS every 2 years since 1978).. and soon you will be like us .. dreading seeing that dang video and test again!...
Good luck,
R/r 911
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Wheel
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This, exactly. If you want to move forward and you have all of those pre reqs done, then you're probably ready for medic school.
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NPO
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I am am EMTB. I have ACLS and took EKG. If you have good teachers you will understand the why. But I recommend working a while first too. Just because you're a basic doesn't mean you can't use the information. I work CCT and medic units. Many times I have alerted my medic to situations including STEMIs. The more you know the more you can help your partner. Again, work first. Develop basic skills.
Christopher
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ACLS and PALS are not classes from an educational standpoint. They're classes from an algorithmic standpoint. They're worth taking if you want to know the "Flow" of algorithmic care. They don't necessarily represent best practices either, so you won't always find their usage in the field. For example, my State does not follow the stock ACLS/PALS algorithms (which allows us to have better survival to discharge than expected).
EKG classes are fine, provided you don't take any geared towards EMS providers. We get short shrift and they're light on education and heavy on tricks. It'll just mess you up.
Pick up something like Bate's Guide to Physical Examination and History Taking and/or Rational Clinical Examination: Evidence-Based Clinical Diagnosis. Both will serve you EXTREMELY well.
Summit
Critical Crazy
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What should you do now? Finish your EMT first. And read everything you can.
THEN take an EKG and PHTLS/ITLS class. AND get a job.
THEN go to paramedic school ASAP.
Sweet. Thanks!
THEN take an EKG and PHTLS/ITLS class. AND get a job.
THEN go to paramedic school ASAP.
Sweet. Thanks!