Why does EMT job pay so little money?

[fortsmithman]

wow, I don't even know where to start, but from the sounds of it the level of education / responsibilities is scattered all over the place in the U.S. And with a 3-6 week EMT-Basic course staffing from the sounds of it, a huge majority of ambulances in the states, I can see why this reflects poor wages.

Here in Alberta Canada, our EMT-Basic equivelant is an EMR, and it is basically viewed as a joke, if this was as far as you took your EMS education, you would be limited to working standby events, on oilrigs as an industrial first aider, and for VERY VERY rural services that basically need 1 more guy on the truck to drive. If you even want to CONSIDER working on an actual ambulance in alberta, having your EMT-A (EMT-I) is the industry standard. its about a 7000 dollar course, which enables you to ECG monitor / dfib, do blind airway maneuvers (king-LT, combitube etc.) give nebulized atrovent / salbutomol, epi, glucagon, ASA, Nitro, D50, nitrous oxide, and oral glucose, which really isn't much but its the basics.

The average starting wage for EMT-A's here in alberta is roughly 19.00$ and up. If you are working for Edmonton or Calgary, our 2 major urban cities, EMT starting wage is around 25$ an hour.

As for Paramedics, am I hearing this right, there are paramedics in the states with 3 month long courses? Tuition here in canada is around 20,000 and the course is 2 years long MINIMUM, and you have to already have your EMT-A and have been working for a year before schools even accept you, so that being said pretty well the FASTEST you could ever become a Paramedic in alberta is 4 years, and thats balls to the walls. At the end of it, our ALS paramedics are from what I am told are among the highest level of trained paramedics with one of the widest scopes of practise in the world.

Paramedics top out around 32$ an hour working in the city. But if they go work industrial they can easily net 700 bucks a day. 32$ an hour is still alot when you consider they work 12 and 14 hour shifts.

Paramedics, at least here is NOT an entry level health care job, they are highly skilled, trained, and specialized elements of the health care field. They are expected to be on top of their game, and have a vast understanding of emergency health care situations.


here in alberta, our wages are becoming competetive, and are poised to be even further on the rise, as the provincial health care system is beginning to utilize EMS personnel even in the hospital setting as their skills are useful in a variety of settings.


Supply and Demand is at an employees advantage in alberta, as the majority of services are understaffed, and beginning to pay even more to attract highly trained EMS providers into their service. If you want to make a life working as a paramedic, maybe its time for you Americans to start looking north of the border, to your often overlooked neighbours

The Alberta College of Paramedics has the highest standards for ems in the country. An EMR working the oil rigs makes anywhere from 200.00 to 250.00 a day. Also ACoP removed the a from the emt designation now it's just emt. The ACoP site is at
http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/
Check it out if any US personnel are interested. Also in 2009 the Alberta provincial government will be taking over EMS throughout Alberta.

 

[BEorP]

The Alberta College of Paramedics has the highest standards for ems in the country. An EMR working the oil rigs makes anywhere from 200.00 to 250.00 a day. Also ACoP removed the a from the emt designation now it's just emt. The ACoP site is at
http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/
Check it out if any US personnel are interested. Also in 2009 the Alberta provincial government will be taking over EMS throughout Alberta.

Highest standards for EMS in the country? Ontario might try to challenge you for that title.

 

[Foxbat]

If the wages for EMT-B are so low due to existance of volunteers, narrow scope of practice, and little education, why are wages for paramedics so close to wages for EMTs? After all, medics' education is broader and deeper than basic's, and there aren't much volunteer paramedics. One could expect them to get significantly more than basics.

 

[Ridryder911]

Because it does not take much more to become a Paramedic in many places as well. Whenever and if ever we really become a profession with real entry requirements, with real professors of EMS that requires formal education then and only then we will see a change. Until we see the mind set change from .. what's the easiest to what is the best.. nothing will change.


R/r 911

 

[MMiz]

If the wages for EMT-B are so low due to existance of volunteers, narrow scope of practice, and little education, why are wages for paramedics so close to wages for EMTs? After all, medics' education is broader and deeper than basic's, and there aren't much volunteer paramedics. One could expect them to get significantly more than basics.

A Paramedic program at most places, including community college, is only a year. How much in college loans does one have to pay back? I agree that Paramedics should make more, but how much do you think they should be making?

As a public school teacher I went to college for four years, got a double major and a minor, did a year-long internship while going to school for a fifth year, and my first year made less than $30,000. I made more money in college working as a web developer.

 

[Foxbat]

A Paramedic program at most places, including community college, is only a year

Which is about 12 times longer than EMT-B.

How much in college loans does one have to pay back?

About 5-10 times more than EMT-Bs.

I agree that Paramedics should make more, but how much do you think they should be making?

I would think about 30 or 50% more than EMT-Bs.

As a public school teacher I went to college for four years, got a double major and a minor, did a year-long internship while going to school for a fifth year, and my first year made less than $30,000. I made more money in college working as a web developer.

Exactly. You made less money by working in a field which requires more education and more responsibility. Which makes me think that while increasing education for both basics and medics is important, it will not by itself cause much difference payment wise. In Russia feldschers (whose duties are close to paramedics', but require 4 years of college) and even EMS physicians' salary is horrible compared to many other professions' (which require less education) wages.

 

[MMiz]

An EMT-Basic program can cost around $1500, while a Paramedic program may cost $5,000 (these are high estimates). 99% of the programs are either local or at a community college where there is no additional cost for room and board.

Around here EMT-Basics make around $35,000 a year, while EMT-Paramedics make around $45,000 a year. Of course those are averages.

As a teacher I would need to get another 2.5 years of college to get a 10% pay raise. Getting an EMT-Paramedic cert is a bit more than a 10% raise, and only takes a year.

 

[VentMedic]

.

As a teacher I would need to get another 2.5 years of college to get a 10% pay raise.

At graduate school tuition rates?

Ouch!

 

[MMiz]

At graduate school tuition rates?

Ouch!

Yeah, grad school tuition rates. Taking the GRE in a few months, having one of my eighth graders tutor me in Algebra

 

[TheMowingMonk]

Alot of it isnt necesarily based on how much time the education takes. Around here there are paramedic programs that range from 6 months of didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship to 1.5 years didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship and medics from moth programs end up making the same money. I think what maters is the amount of material you need to know rather then how long you are in school cause hell an idiot could stay in school and learn as much information in three years as a genious could learn. but in the end their skill based and knowledge is the same. The amount of time the spend in school is just a detail but it seems to be what everyone focuses on when it comes to EMS pay

 

[MMiz]

Alot of it isnt necesarily based on how much time the education takes. Around here there are paramedic programs that range from 6 months of didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship to 1.5 years didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship and medics from moth programs end up making the same money. I think what maters is the amount of material you need to know rather then how long you are in school cause hell an idiot could stay in school and learn as much information in three years as a genious could learn. but in the end their skill based and knowledge is the same. The amount of time the spend in school is just a detail but it seems to be what everyone focuses on when it comes to EMS pay

I agree to a certain extent, but I think it's part of the equation.

 

[TheMowingMonk]

the way i see it, we are not being paid for how much time we've spent in school. we are getting paid for the skills we provide, the more skills we are capable of providing the more we should get paid for. Personally I am all for increasing the standards of education for EMS because this will in turn increase the amount of skills we will possess as it limits ems to more qualified personel and with the ability to do more in the field then we would have an inarguable reason why we should get paid more.

 

[VentMedic]

the way i see it, we are not being paid for how much time we've spent in school. we are getting paid for the skills we provide, the more skills we are capable of providing the more we should get paid for. Personally I am all for increasing the standards of education for EMS because this will in turn increase the amount of skills we will possess as it limits ems to more qualified personel and with the ability to do more in the field then we would have an inarguable reason why we should get paid more.

Like a laborer and not a professional?

The "skills" a Paramedic has are also possessed by many other healthcare professionals who also are required to have extensive college education regardless of how many skills they have.

Around here there are paramedic programs that range from 6 months of didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship to 1.5 years didactic + Clinicals and Preceptorship and medics from moth programs end up making the same money.

A 110 hour EMT program can be stretched to 10 months by going 1 night a week for 2 hours.

When the education is based on "hours" of training and not by degrees, it is hard to measure the length of the programs. CA requires only 1090 hours for a Paramedic program. If one does not know what the program consists of, it could be like the joke "it took him/her 8 years to finish college" if one person finished in 6 months and another in 1.5 years.

This is the reason legislators have a difficult time understanding what it takes to be a paramedic. The credit hours of a degree are much easier to translate with some consistency even if the content varies. Even the trade programs like carpentry and welding now have translated their hours of study into college degrees to add value to their measurable education.

 

[TheMowingMonk]

A 110 hour EMT program can be stretched to 10 months by going 1 night a week for 2 hours.

When the education is based on "hours" of training and not by degrees, it is hard to measure the length of the programs. CA requires only 1090 hours for a Paramedic program. If one does not know what the program consists of, it could be like the joke "it took him/her 8 years to finish college" if one person finished in 6 months and another in 1.5 years.

This is the reason legislators have a difficult time understanding what it takes to be a paramedic. The credit hours of a degree are much easier to translate with some consistency even if the content varies. Even the trade programs like carpentry and welding now have translated their hours of study into college degrees to add value to their measurable education.

if that is the case, then I would be for making Paramedic a degree, I from what i hear in many places that what they do, and this could be a relistic goal since it exsists and most paramedic programs are already at community colleges why not just give the extra push and make it an associates program. I know when I go to Medic school im planing to get the associates in paramedicine that one of our CC offers

 

[natrab]

Unfortunately there is a cap on what you get paid that is set by how much money your employer takes in. If you're in the public sector, it depends on your taxpayers and union lobbyists. If you're private ambulance, it depends on their need for employees and how much income they are bringing in.

In many places in the country, ambulance rides are not a big money-maker in the grand scheme of the medical world. Many places actually lose money for the sake of providing the services (usually made up for in the form of a subsidy from the county).

I work in the Bay Area in California and I get paid quite well. Everyone here does. Why? We have a high concentration of well-insured population as well as an extremely high demand for paramedics and EMTs. We also have a much higher cost of living in comparison to most of the country, though our level of pay keeps us pretty comfortable in this environment.

We are still on the level of garbage men and cab drivers though due to our professional standards. Rid's got it right, we need a nationwide effort to raise our own standards and move ourselves into a professional light. Then we can demand appropriate wages and treatment.

 

[TheMowingMonk]

Unfortunately there is a cap on what you get paid that is set by how much money your employer takes in. If you're in the public sector, it depends on your taxpayers and union lobbyists. If you're private ambulance, it depends on their need for employees and how much income they are bringing in.

In many places in the country, ambulance rides are not a big money-maker in the grand scheme of the medical world. Many places actually lose money for the sake of providing the services (usually made up for in the form of a subsidy from the county).

I work in the Bay Area in California and I get paid quite well. Everyone here does. Why? We have a high concentration of well-insured population as well as an extremely high demand for paramedics and EMTs. We also have a much higher cost of living in comparison to most of the country, though our level of pay keeps us pretty comfortable in this environment.

We are still on the level of garbage men and cab drivers though due to our professional standards. Rid's got it right, we need a nationwide effort to raise our own standards and move ourselves into a professional light. Then we can demand appropriate wages and treatment.

im right with you on that one

 

[VentMedic]

I work in the Bay Area in California and I get paid quite well. Everyone here does. Why? We have a high concentration of well-insured population as well as an extremely high demand for paramedics and EMTs. We also have a much higher cost of living in comparison to most of the country, though our level of pay keeps us pretty comfortable in this environment.

Your wages are still very low when compared to what other degreed and licensed healthcare professionals make in the Bay Area.

 

[fortsmithman]

A Paramedic program at most places, including community college, is only a year. How much in college loans does one have to pay back? I agree that Paramedics should make more, but how much do you think they should be making?

As a public school teacher I went to college for four years, got a double major and a minor, did a year-long internship while going to school for a fifth year, and my first year made less than $30,000. I made more money in college working as a web developer.

In alberta paramedic programs are 2 yrs in length. EMT programs take approx a year.

 

[BossyCow]

My day job pays quite well. It is not a healthcare job, but private sector, technical. I get paid well because the time I spend is billed out at a rate that makes my employer money. The more I work, the more money they make on my labor. As experience improves my skill set, it also raises my value to my employers. Training someone new, which we do every summer with intern/draftsmen, takes time, effort and slows down projects. So, the incentive is to keep employees who know their jobs, do them well with minimal supervision.

Why should EMS be any different? If the company you work for values what you do, they will pay you for it. If they don't, find another job, another agency, another career. But, if you are willing to keep showing up for work, working for an employer who doesn't respect what you do, in my opinion, that speaks more about you than it does the profession.

In my area, EMT-Bs are making a living wage, with benefits. EMT-Ps make really good money. But we are a limited geographic area with a small pool of job applicants. I find it really petty to be whining "I want to be an EMT-B but no one will pay me tons of money" So what ... my 19 year old son wants to be a rock star, no one is tossing money at him either.. make a choice then live with your choice. Its called growing up.

If you want industry change, you have to become a vehicle for that change. If you want change, work for it, organize your workplace, support the associations financially who are lobbying for changes in the industry. Write your congressmen, participate in regional agencies who set policies. But you have to earn the right to complain by first being a part of the process.

 

[RESQ_5_1]

I did my EMT program in Alberta. And, it wasn't a year long.

Oilpatch workers up here have nothing over a HS diploma other than some certificates such as WHMIS, H2S, etc. and the LOW end for them (rig hand) pas around $100,000/ year. While education is nice, pay is detemined more by what the field you work in will bear. When I worked as an industrial medic, the guys didn't understand why i made the amount I did (still MUCH less than them) for sitting on my butt. As I told them, I get paid for what I CAN do. Not necessarily what I do the majority of the time.