WA State EMT Cert

[NomadicMedic]

Glad you had a good experience. Most, not all, EMTs that work in king county for privates will tell you a different story.

 

[leoemt]

Glad you had a good experience. Most, not all, EMTs that work in king county for privates will tell you a different story.

I am sure they will. There is probably a difference in dealing with KCMO on scene versus in a hospital when they are cleaning out their rigs.

I hope my experiences will stay positive, but I am not naive enough to know that will be the case.

In my cop days I used to deal with KCSO and well that wasn't always the best experience to put it mildly.

 

[Level1pedstech]

The King County guys are great. Just ask em, they'll tell you.

For those that might have an intrest in the progam was there one big negative experience or just several annoying things with you and King Co. You once posted something about the culture that you disliked and I have seen other posts where your refer to King Co negatively. Are they just difficult to deal with or is it something else?

Having never dealt with them first hand I have no clue about how they interact on scene. There was a time several years ago I thought about applying but never got around to it. However I do know a few SFD guys and some RN's from up that way and they have pretty good things to say.

 

[heatherabel3]

I've had my feelers out since I started school last month and every single person I have talked to has said to stay away from King County. I wish I knew an actual reason why though. All I seem to get is "just stay away, trust me". Uh....ok

 

[leoemt]

I've had my feelers out since I started school last month and every single person I have talked to has said to stay away from King County. I wish I knew an actual reason why though. All I seem to get is "just stay away, trust me". Uh....ok

KCMO is like any large agency in that you have various egos involved. My personal experience has been the medics are great but I have only met a handful of them and I don't see them every day.

The Medic One program is one of the best in the country and Seattle / KCMO is one of the reasons why. That said, the rest of the country has done a good job catching up and producing some great medics. Some of the KCMO medics still think they are the best of the best and that their s**t don't stink. Fortunately I have never met any of them yet.

Any profession has people like that and its not just KCMO or the medical field. When I was a cop I dealt with both SPD and KCSO and quite frankly the officers I dealt with were arrogant and not the example of law enforcement I would expect. Fortunately it was only training and I never had to work with them on calls.

My advice is don't listen to those that tell you KCMO is a bunch of d***s. You will get your chance to meet and work with them on your own. Reserve judgement until then and remember it may just be personality conflicts that have lead to the negativity.

If your taking your class in King County then you will most likely go to Harborview and get to meet them then. As I said, I had a very positive experience with them when I was at Harborview.

Good luck in your class.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I'm afraid you can't see what's going on there until you work with the medics. When I was working BLS in King County I was turfed numerous ALS calls, saw the medics berate BLS crews, both firefighters and private ambulance, for calling for ALS, saw many instances where the medics were not just impolite, but downright rude to patients and families and saw for myself the culture that "the medics were always right". If you ever complained about a paramedic, you would be terminated from your job. Most EMTs are treated as simple stretcher fetchers and that's it. Many times we were told, "wait outside with the stretcher until we need you". Then we were handed a patient, with no report, no history... No nothing. The medics would simply get in the truck and drive away.

For example, as a BLS provider, I was turfed a narcotics OD with an LR line running, who had just received 0.4 of Narcan. Not a transport in the BLS scope in King County. When I showed up at the ED, the doc was furious. Oh well, who do you complain to? There was no real mechanism for them to be accountable. I was turfed head injuries, chest pain (with no 12 lead and a cardiac history) respiratory distress that resulted in me bagging the PT... The firefighters wouldn't call medics for pain management because they knew the medics would complain to the battalion chief. So, we'd have to BLS little old ladies with hip fx and PTs writhing around with kidney stones. It was a mess...

They may do a great job of resuscitating VF arrests, but the overall system attitude and basic patient care is abysmal.

When I was new in Washington, I believed the hype and set my sights on working for Medic One. Shortly after working BLS along with the KCM1 medics, I realized how badly flawed the system was and decided I wanted no part of it.

But, ymmv. Work for a couple of years in King County and then tell me what you think.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I'm afraid you can't see what's going on there until you work with the medics. When I was working BLS in King County I was turfed numerous ALS calls, saw the medics berate BLS crews, both firefighters and private ambulance, for calling for ALS, saw many instances where the medics were not just impolite, but downright rude to patients and families and saw for myself the culture that "the medics were always right". If you ever complained about a paramedic, you would be terminated from your job. Most EMTs are treated as simple stretcher fetchers and that's it. Many times we were told, "wait outside with the stretcher until we need you". Then we were handed a patient, with no report, no history... No nothing. The medics would simply get in the truck and drive away.

For example, as a BLS provider, I was turfed a narcotics OD with an LR line running, who had just received 0.4 of Narcan. Not a transport in the BLS scope in King County. When I showed up at the ED, the doc was furious. Oh well, who do you complain to? There was no real mechanism for them to be accountable. I was turfed head injuries, chest pain (with no 12 lead and a cardiac history) respiratory distress that resulted in me bagging the PT... The firefighters wouldn't call medics for pain management because they knew the medics would complain to the battalion chief. So, we'd have to BLS little old ladies with hip fx and PTs writhing around with kidney stones. It was a mess...

They may do a great job of resuscitating VF arrests, but the overall system attitude and basic patient care is abysmal.

When I was new in Washington, I believed the hype and set my sights on working for Medic One. Shortly after working BLS along with the KCM1 medics, I realized how badly flawed the system was and decided I wanted no part of it.

But, ymmv. Work for a couple of years in King County and then tell me what you think.

Thanks for laying it out for those that might be interested in working for them. Sounds like a pretty intense environment to have to work in on a day to day basis.

A little rivalry between agencies is expected but so is a professional level of respect. They seem to have the ability to affect alot of different agencies which must be annoying to alot of providers.

Just curious on the chain of command at KCMO. If you had a problem could you not go right to a BC or do they have a seperate command structure for the medics. Seems to me someone up the chain of command should be interested in the more serious issues you descibed.

 

[leoemt]

I'm afraid you can't see what's going on there until you work with the medics. When I was working BLS in King County I was turfed numerous ALS calls, saw the medics berate BLS crews, both firefighters and private ambulance, for calling for ALS, saw many instances where the medics were not just impolite, but downright rude to patients and families and saw for myself the culture that "the medics were always right". If you ever complained about a paramedic, you would be terminated from your job. Most EMTs are treated as simple stretcher fetchers and that's it. Many times we were told, "wait outside with the stretcher until we need you". Then we were handed a patient, with no report, no history... No nothing. The medics would simply get in the truck and drive away.

For example, as a BLS provider, I was turfed a narcotics OD with an LR line running, who had just received 0.4 of Narcan. Not a transport in the BLS scope in King County. When I showed up at the ED, the doc was furious. Oh well, who do you complain to? There was no real mechanism for them to be accountable. I was turfed head injuries, chest pain (with no 12 lead and a cardiac history) respiratory distress that resulted in me bagging the PT... The firefighters wouldn't call medics for pain management because they knew the medics would complain to the battalion chief. So, we'd have to BLS little old ladies with hip fx and PTs writhing around with kidney stones. It was a mess...

They may do a great job of resuscitating VF arrests, but the overall system attitude and basic patient care is abysmal.

When I was new in Washington, I believed the hype and set my sights on working for Medic One. Shortly after working BLS along with the KCM1 medics, I realized how badly flawed the system was and decided I wanted no part of it.

But, ymmv. Work for a couple of years in King County and then tell me what you think.

Was this KCMO in the outskirts or were these the ones assigned to SFD? I would be appaled if I was treated like that. Like I said I have no doubt that there are some d***heads out there, but every profession has them. System wide though I would hope that would be the minority rather than the majority that treat BLS like that.

When I was with Boeing there was one medic with EFD that hated to be bothered. Protocol was a chest pain automatically got a ALS evaluation unless our medical clinic was open in which case a doctor would evaluate. Anyway, this particular Medic would always turf the calls back to our aid unit which was BLS only. One instance he turfed a call back to our aid unit and the patient coded in the back of the ambulance. Fortunately the patient survived.

This medic hated everyone and just seemed angry and bitter.

But I didn't care, that was his problem if acted like that. I don't know what happened to him but I do know he stopped responding to us, maybe he was switched to another station. Most of the EFD medics were great. I remember a chest pain call (as security we had to escort the medics) and when I got the medic crew on scene our FF's mentioned I was interested in EMS. So with the blessing of the patient I was given a crash course in 12 lead and arrythmias.

I don't let people who feel they are better than me get me down. I didn't allow it as a cop and I won't allow it as an EMT. If a medic, nurse, doctor, etc wants to be a jerk then so be it. I can't change them and its pointless to argue. The problems go much deeper than just BLS / ALS rivalry.

Its a shame that we have to even have the experiences that n7lxi had. I would think that we wouldn't have those issues in EMS as we should be there for the patient but unfortunately I feel that n7lxi's experiences are probably pretty common.

 

[NomadicMedic]

KCM1 is King County Medic One. A separate service, the only non fire paramedics in King County. They cover south of Seattle.

And while there are some great medics at KCM1, the culture of disdain for BLS and "paragoditis" is, sadly, system wide.

 

[leoemt]

KCM1 is King County Medic One. A separate service, the only non fire paramedics in King County. They cover south of Seattle.

And while there are some great medics at KCM1, the culture of disdain for BLS and "paragoditis" is, sadly, system wide.

I was under the impression that Seattle Fire Medics are a part of Medic One and are not part of the SFD even though they respond from the fire stations.

My experience has been with those in Seattle and not with the medics outside the city.

Is this correct that KCMO also staffs the SFD Medic units and that it is not fire based?

These are the guys I am talking about:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Seattle_fire_department_medic_80.jpg

 

[NomadicMedic]

No. You're incorrect on both counts.

SFD medics are Seattle firefighters. KCM1 has nothing to do with Seattle Fire medic one.

I suggest you do some research on how the systems work. Medic One is simple an umbrella name for paramedic level service. While both Seattle and KCM1 medics are trained at Harborview, they are very different departments.

 

[leoemt]

No. You're incorrect on both counts.

SFD medics are Seattle firefighters. KCM1 has nothing to do with Seattle Fire medic one.

I suggest you do some research on how the systems work. Medic One is simple an umbrella name for paramedic level service. While both Seattle and KCM1 medics are trained at Harborview, they are very different departments.

According to the SFD website, Seattle Firefighters are trained under KCMO as paramedics. There are 5 provider paramedic agencies in KC.

I'm sorry I thought the point of this forum was to ask questions, not to be told to do research.

KCMO is its own agency per the King County website: http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/ems/MedicOne.aspx

The FF/Paramedics from the 5 provider agencies fall under this when working as a paramedic. As a result even though SFD paramedics are part of Seattle fire, they can respond anywhere in the county if the need arises. But of course you have done research so you knew that already, right? So as you can see, per the website Medic One is its own agency that controls the FF/Paramedics when working in a Medic capacity.

By the way, the 5 agencies are:
*Bellevue Medic One serves the City of Bellvue as well as Issaquah and North Bend areas.
*Evergreen Medic One serves the Kirkland, Redmond, Bothell and Woodinville areas.
*King County Medic One serves the Burien, Renton, Kent, Federal Way, Auburn and Enumclaw areas.
*Seattle Fire Department Medic One serves the City of Seattle.
*Shoreline Medic One the City of Shoreline area.

All 5 agencies make up the Medic One system in King County. It is not an Umbrella term.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Yes it is a generic umbrella term for paramedic level services in the state of Washington, specifically the Northwest. There are agencies that are not affiliated with Medic One at all, and still call their system medic one. The perfect example would be Mason County medic one. That's not even a county system, it's a private company that's run by Olympic Ambulance. And the paramedics there were not trained at Harborview.

And I advised you to do some research because you were spouting facts that were untrue. King County medic one and Seattle fire department medic one are two entirely different departments. Different medical directors, to an extent different protocols. You'll notice that Seattle fire medics call everything in to the Harborview base station to be cleared for orders, while King County medic one paramedics don't call for much, with the exception of RSI. To be a paramedic in King County you need to attend The Harborview paramedic program. The only way you can be a paramedic in King County without being a firefighter is to work for King County medical one, that is riding a medic truck south of Seattle. King County medical one is administered by King County Department of health. And provides the paramedic services just south King County. It's a great job, pays a ton, has a strong union... If you feel the system is good, I suggest looking into it. It's a rigorous training program but the paramedics that come out of that program are possibly the best educated in the country.

You understand the difference that I'm trying to point out? King County medic one is it's own department. Seattle fire department medic one is it's own department. Shoreline fire department medic one is its own department.
All of the paramedics were trained at Harborview, all of them work for a department that refers to itself as "medic one". While much of the research is shared and the the training and protocols are common, they are not the same system.

 

[leoemt]

Yes it is a generic umbrella term for paramedic level services in the state of Washington, specifically the Northwest. There are agencies that are not affiliated with Medic One at all, and still call their system medic one. The perfect example would be Mason County medic one. That's not even a county system, it's a private company that's run by Olympic Ambulance. And the paramedics there were not trained at Harborview.

And I advised you to do some research because you were spouting facts that were untrue. King County medic one and Seattle fire department medic one are two entirely different departments. Different medical directors, to an extent different protocols. You'll notice that Seattle fire medics call everything in to the Harborview base station to be cleared for orders, while King County medic one paramedics don't call for much, with the exception of RSI. To be a paramedic in King County you need to attend The Harborview paramedic program. The only way you can be a paramedic in King County without being a firefighter is to work for King County medical one, that is riding a medic truck south of Seattle. King County medical one is administered by King County Department of health. And provides the paramedic services just south King County. It's a great job, pays a ton, has a strong union... If you feel the system is good, I suggest looking into it. It's a rigorous training program but the paramedics that come out of that program are possibly the best educated in the country.

You understand the difference that I'm trying to point out? King County medic one is it's own department. Seattle fire department medic one is it's own department. Shoreline fire department medic one is its own department.
All of the paramedics were trained at Harborview, all of them work for a department that refers to itself as "medic one". While much of the research is shared and the the training and protocols are common, they are not the same system.

I wasn't spouting facts that were untrue I was trying to clarification for facts that I had heard which is why I asked.

King County Medic One may be its own agency but it oversees all paramedics in King County. That is what you learn if you read the web page I referenced. I think you are confusing the issue.

The Medic One program was started in the City of Seattle in 1970. Through mutual aid and first response programs all of King County is covered under Medic One. Again this is straight from the King County web page.

Medic One is a concept of providing advanced life saving care in a prehospital setting.

So I will reiterate that while Seattle Fire medics may be firefighters, because they are part of the KCMO system they could respond to areas outside the city if needed. Again, this is coming straight from the web page. Not sure why you brought other agencies into it, I wasn't asking about those.

I asked a question about whether Seattle Fire Medics were Seattle FF's. You only had to answer that question- didn't have to start this debate, but since you did you can read the King County page - lots of good info especially in the history section.

You seem knowledgeable and someone that I hope I can learn from, especially since we are in the same state.

 

[NomadicMedic]

And... Fin.