the 100% directionless thread

[shfd739]

cmon man. whiskey is NOT for going to sleep. did you bring a woman home?

Beer and tacos is a great way to pass out.

My wife may not like if I bring a woman home lol.

Just been one of those nights at work.

 

[8jimi8]

My wife may not like if I bring a woman home lol.

Just been one of those nights at work.

but if she did... THEN the whiskey would be the appropriate choice!

 

[shfd739]

but if she did... THEN the whiskey would be the appropriate choice!

Whiskey, wine, margaritas etc. lol. At that point it's wide open and I'm screwed and will need lots

 

[exodus]

$10k for a PA program? Nice! Talk about serious ROI, that's pretty cool

http://www.rccd.edu/academicprograms/pa/Pages/EstimatedCost.aspx

The total program cost including tuition, books, and other educational supplies is: $8,559 (out-of-state first year and second year cost $17,447).

 

[heatherabel3]

No medications, NKDA, no PMH of this. fever ranging from 100-104 rectal, mild head pain, severe throat pain and swelling/redness of throat. No blisters present (almost wrote pregnant lmao). Minor periods of time where not fully alert (not confused, just very zoned out). Talking provokes some pain, onset was about 2AM this morning, pain awoke me. Dizziness sometimes present. Airway is clear bilaterally, in all 5 lobes. slight cough occurs every-so-often (non-frequent). My heart felt a little weird before, hard to describe. Almost like the reverse of how aFib presents (2nd beat felt a lot stronger then the first one). But that went away really quick.

Ironically, I... how do I put this... christened my mustang 2 days ago with a girl. And she had a slight cough which she said was nothing... I'm wondering if she got me sick.

Actually she probably did.

Could it be Epiglottitis? I know its mainly a little kid thing but it can happen in adults.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Family friendly folks

 

[EpiEMS]

http://www.rccd.edu/academicprograms/pa/Pages/EstimatedCost.aspx

Their PANCE pass rate isn't great, though -- it's significantly (P > 0.05) lower than the national, at least, based on their 5-year numbers. Also, is it not a master's level program?

 

[VFlutter]

Their PANCE pass rate isn't great, though -- it's significantly (P > 0.05) lower than the national, at least, based on their 5-year numbers. Also, is it not a master's level program?

There was a thread about this topic a while ago. Apparently California does not require their PAs to have a masters. Crazy :wacko: I wonder if NPs have to have their MSN?


For comparison, in Missouri my MSN (ACNP or CRNA) will take me two years (After 2 years ICU experience and some extra classes such as physics, Biochem, calculus ) and will cost me about $40k.

 

[EpiEMS]

There was a thread about this topic a while ago. Apparently California does not require their PAs to have a masters. Crazy :wacko: I wonder if NPs have to have their MSN?

Eh, it's not so much that I think it's a bad thing -- I'm just sort of surprised. Certainly means nothing in terms of clinical competence, I mean, we've all met providers who were more or less competent than their level of education suggested. Granted, from a $$ perspective, if I were a PA, I'd demand the highest educational requirements so as to jack up the cost of entry, reduce the number of providers, etc. so as to protect and raise my earnings.

For comparison, in Missouri my MSN (ACNP or CRNA) will take me two years (After 2 years ICU experience and some extra classes such as physics, Biochem, calculus ) and will cost me about $40k.

Didn't realize that you needed calc, physics, and biochem for NP programs -- I would've assumed they're necessary for a CRNA program, surely. Any idea what the income differential between an NP and a CRNA is? I was thinking that it's >$50k a year (with the NP at ~$80-100k and the gas passer at ~$150k)?

 

[heatherabel3]

The school where I'm from offers a Bachlor only program as well as a Masters program. Each are equally hard to get into but from I've seen there isnt really a preference for one over the other when it comes to getting hired.

 

[VFlutter]

Didn't realize that you needed calc, physics, and biochem for NP programs -- I would've assumed they're necessary for a CRNA program, surely. Any idea what the income differential between an NP and a CRNA is? I was thinking that it's >$50k a year (with the NP at ~$80-100k and the gas passer at ~$150k)?

You only need advanced science classes for CRNA and ACNP not for the other NP programs, at least at the schools I am looking at. However they are talking about changing the structure of the NP certifications so things may be different in the next few years.

Ya your figures are pretty much dead on. It really depends on what type of NP you are. A lot of RNs are going back for their MSN-Education which would allow them to teach or be clinical educators but does not really add much to their value as a practitioner so they are usually lower on the pay scale. ACNP is usually somewhere in-between more towards the $100k+ range.

Speaking of pass rates, here is my school's CRNA progam...

Certification Exam Pass Rate (first time takers):
2006 - 100%
2007 - 100%
2008 - 100%
2009 - 100%
2010 - 100%
2011 - 100%

 

[8jimi8]

Entry level np is msn. If not DNP. Pa non masters? Sounds like weaksauce.

 

[VFlutter]

Entry level np is msn. If not DNP. Pa non masters? Sounds like weaksauce.

That is because we are just dumb nurses who can't do anything without a doctors order therefore we need all that extra education just to be on the same level. Or something like that

 

[Asclepius911]

Its not that easy becoming a Dr., there is a lot of steps , First, get a near perfect grade in all Bio chem ochem physics calculus and biochem and have a bachelors then take your mcats, before applying you must have research experience, volunteer experience, and must obtain 3 letters of recommendations, one from a Dr. That you've work for, and 2 from professors, after you've got all that done now you can apply for medical school, which is 5 years, after completing medical school you have to complete residency which may take 3-7 years depending on the field of interest .... compare alllllllll that education and experience to nurse program, a masters in nursing takes less time than an MD.

 

[8jimi8]

Let me rephrase so that my intent will not be misconstrued.

If I walk into your office seeking medicinal advice and I see you are a bachelors prepared PA, I will keep on walking.

 

[heatherabel3]

I actually find that very unfortunate. In my very short time of actual exposure in the medical field one of the biggest things I have learned is that the letters behind a persons name have no true impact on the level of provider they are. I have met a few medics I wouldn't let touch me with a self guiding laryngascope yet the fire chief at my soon to be vfd is a basic that I would let take out my spleen on the side of the road if necessary. A degree means you had the time and money to invest and were good at learning a text book, it doesnt always mean you have the practical know how to be a good provider.

 

[fast65]

A degree means you had the time and money to invest and were good at learning a text book, it doesnt always mean you have the practical know how to be a good provider.

But it helps...

 

[VFlutter]

Its not that easy becoming a Dr., there is a lot of steps , First, get a near perfect grade in all Bio chem ochem physics calculus and biochem and have a bachelors then take your mcats, before applying you must have research experience, volunteer experience, and must obtain 3 letters of recommendations, one from a Dr. That you've work for, and 2 from professors, after you've got all that done now you can apply for medical school, which is 5 years, after completing medical school you have to complete residency which may take 3-7 years depending on the field of interest .... compare alllllllll that education and experience to nurse program, a masters in nursing takes less time than an MD.

I do not think anyone is claiming that becoming a Dr is easy, not sure where that came from? My comment was in reference to the same level as PAs not MDs

Also at the hospital where I work the ACNPs function basically at the same level as the residents, they have similar responsibilities and perform the same procedures. Just to give you an idea of their level and role in the hospital. At that point they will have 6+ years of education plus a lot of working experience which is similar to what a new resident would have (residents still have more).

So can bachelor prepared PAs in California write orders/prescriptions? I am confused how a PA would be able to right orders for a BSN RN without having a higher level of education.

 

[CANDawg]

Honestly, I've never quite understood the PA thing. That said, I can't say I have much knowledge on the issue. In my province we have a grand total of 14 (yes, exactly 14) PAs, and 10 of those received their training in the military. (Source: http://www.cpsa.ab.ca/PhysicianAssistants/Physician Assistants Listing.pdf) There's no regulatory mechanism, and there isn't really a defined role that they fill here.

That said, If there is a need to fill a gap between RN's and physicians, why not just create a new role that you can tack onto the career progressions of RNs or Paramedics? This would mean the people moving into this role already have extensive experience, a good educational background, and come from roles that have pretty large scopes. You could then leverage this into an even larger scope than PA's already fill. Seems more appropriate than taking someone from zero skills and knowledge, sitting them in a classroom for a few years and then expecting them to replace physicians in many areas.

Edit: Is it just me, or does anyone else think this should be a separate thread?

 

[8jimi8]

I actually find that very unfortunate. In my very short time of actual exposure in the medical field one of the biggest things I have learned is that the letters behind a persons name have no true impact on the level of provider they are. I have met a few medics I wouldn't let touch me with a self guiding laryngascope yet the fire chief at my soon to be vfd is a basic that I would let take out my spleen on the side of the road if necessary. A degree means you had the time and money to invest and were good at learning a text book, it doesnt always mean you have the practical know how to be a good provider.

An ACCREDITED degree means that your PROGRAM has met the national STANDARD. Maybe that programs low output of first time pass rates are a testimonial to the standards of the curricullum, or the quality of applicants admitted. In either case, those letters DO mean something. Unles the ProEducation nature of this website has changed, since I was more active, I think you may find that most people agree with the recognized accreditation process.