Staging for Dangerous/Insecure Scenes

[MMiz]

What is the norm for you staging for insecure/dangerous scenes? Dispatch would almost always notify us during the initial dispatch, even if it was seemingly obvious.

There have been a few fights that we've responded to that were only secured by the FD with no PD on scene. I'm not sure that was the best idea.

What's the norm where you are?

 

[Grady_emt]

We stage for all assaults, shootings, stabbings, violent psych pts, uncooperative/beligerant caller, etc. Dispatch just about always advises us to stage, but we can usually tell just by reading the notes on the call. Usually AFD does not stage and they go charging right in (and occasionally yelling for APD emergency). Occasionally we do go into scenes that AFD only has secured for several reasons.
First is PR (yes public relations) ie: shooting in a project Fire is onscene, PD is tied up elsewhere and we are staging at teh complex entrance as usual. 200 people looking at AFD treating the PT and a GEMS unit sitting 200yards away never comes out good in the paper or the news.
Second, if AFD goes in and confirm a critical pt/wound we roll in, scoop them up and drive off, no sense killing the pt waiting for the po-po.

I try to stage at least a block or two away from the location, or at the entrance to the apt complex. Even when we see PD drive by, we still give them a minute or two before we head in to lock up the appropriate folks.

 

[ffemt8978]

If we know, based upon the dispatch information, then we stage. We also stage and wait for PD for certain addresses, based upon past history. If we don't feel comfortable with the call, we stage.

 

[Epi-do]

Ditto what ffemt8978 said. Our dispatch is usually pretty good about letting us know if we need to stage. On those runs, we never enter the scene until we have been advised that PD say it is secure and safe for us to do so. We typically stage a couple blocks away.

 

[BossyCow]

We have had to ask dispatch on occasion if staging will be required. They will verify with LEO if the scene is safe. Generally they let us know up front, but being a rural agency, we know most of the unsafe locations and will often double check on a supposedly safe scene before responding. It's important to remember that being out of sight while staging is important, otherwise the unsafe scene may move in your direction.

Seeing the sheriff-mobile pass us enroute to the scene is less of an indicator of scene safety than actually having dispatch say "You may now respond, the scene is declared safe by the deputy"

 

[emtangie850]

Dispatch will normally tone us out and tell us to 10-21 (contact dispatch via phone for more information). Other times they tell us where to stage (cross roads or at our hall). Then when it is secure they give us the a-okay!
I always make sure that PD is still on scene and is around us when we arrive.

-Angie

 

[Aileana]

Dispatch normally tells us to "proceed with caution", even when it's obvious. PD is normally there before us for whatever reason, but if they're not, we normally sit in the truck and wait until they can come secure the scene. No point in running in and becoming patients ourselves.

 

[Jon]

My Service's protocol is to stage at least 2 blocks away for any:
Shooting
Stabbing
EDP/Psych
Assault

County dispatch gives us all our calls, they USUALLY end the dispatch for these with "Scene is secure" or "Scene is not secure"... but they don't always.

Now, sometimes we choose to go in before PD confirms the scene is safe... like tonight. We went to a homeless shelter for a psych Pt... shelter staff already called Crisis and Crisis wanted Pt. brought to the hospital for eval. I knew the patient by name, and after I relayed his usual complaints to my crew, my partner knew him, too. Neither of us have ever had any problem with this pt., so we decided to proceed in. PD was onscene anyway, but we didn't even bother checking because we felt comfortable. (it all boils down to a judgement call from the providers).

 

[Flight-LP]

We will also stage for the usual "rod and gun club" calls, nut cases, and people who get their a#@ beat. We also stage for the infamous 32B, "unknown problem" calls until either S.O. arrives or the calltaker actually finds out what the issue is. I will wait for S.O. regardless of any knowledge or previous contacts I have had with a patient. Just because we may be buddies one minute, doesn't mean they won't have a quick change of heart.

We also have several apartment complexes that we will stage for at night, regardless of the nature, due to increased gang activity. It sucks for those who really do need us as the wait times for S.O. can be lengthy at night, especially on the weekends...............

 

[ryahic]

in my system the dispatchers are great at staging - if one little thing sounds off, we`re staging. our stage guidelines are strickly enforced - no closer than 5 blocks and not in a straight line.

 

[Ridryder911]

Heck, since most of my EMS personnel are martial art trained and some carry weapons, and all have us carry a toolman or knife, we have been known to push the LEO and SWAT team out of the way....


Seriously, we stage in a safe area... no written procedure since it varies. We do require one to have common sense.

R/r 911

 

[emtwacker710]

they actually changed the protocol for my county recently, anytime there is a EMS call that presents any danger to the pt., emergency personel or bystanders, a patrol is atomatically dispatched before EMS is even notified, so that when they tone us out they say "be advised a patrol is enroute", now (which I think this is stupid) for any fire/MVA calls they send a patrol first and wait until the patrol arrives and then advises if fire/EMS is needed!! I think that is stupid personally

 

[Flight-LP]

they actually changed the protocol for my county recently, anytime there is a EMS call that presents any danger to the pt., emergency personel or bystanders, a patrol is atomatically dispatched before EMS is even notified, so that when they tone us out they say "be advised a patrol is enroute", now (which I think this is stupid) for any fire/MVA calls they send a patrol first and wait until the patrol arrives and then advises if fire/EMS is needed!! I think that is stupid personally

I think it is a wonderful idea, why risk running emergently and taking a unit out of service if not necessary? I would love it if our LE would start this, we usually get the opposite end of the spectrum, they call us to "check people out" all the freaking time. Very few need or want EMS assistance.

 

[emtwacker710]

well I agree partly with it, like now they send just patrols for lifting assists (THANK GOD!) I can actually get sleep some nights...but the fire part I disagree with for fire calls the sheriff should be dispatched but fire right after that, we shouldn't have to wait until the patrol gets on scene and reports a working structure fire!