Service Dog in Ambulance

Mountain Res-Q

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Quick Question. Just heard this one. Call was for a female who wanted transport to the ED for "really bad poison oak", and asked the dispatcher if it was possible for her "blind seeing eye dog" (a service dog protected by law) to accompany her to the ED in the Ambulance. Upon dispatch the Medic said that he could not have the dog in the back of the Ambulance, and the patient then cancelled her request for the Ambulance. Now, setting aside the BS nature of the call, what does the law state about Service Dogs in Ambulances? I had never encountered that situation myself; has anyone? Any law, policy, etc you want to share? Because SAR Dogs in CA recently received the same protection as Service Dogs for Medical Uses, I am familiar with (in general) with some prohibitions that still stand (like taking the dog into an ICU or into a Clean Room), but am not familiar with this one. Was that a legal statement from the Medic?
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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on one hand, service animals are permitted to go pretty much anywhere.

on the other hand, you now have an animal in a confined space that he or she is unfamiliar with, and the decon aside (we will speculate that you will be OOS until proper cleanup occurs), if the dog doesn't like the ride or gets aggressive/barks/bites, then what?

that is a very good question. hopefully your upper management has a written policy on how to handle such animals.
 

DesertMedic66

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When I was going thru my FTO time I was told that as long as it was in fact a service animal and it would fit in the ambulance safely then we have to take it and let the hospital know. I haven't bothered to look it up to see if we have an actual policy on it tho.

I've transported one service animal so far without issue. Granted it was a very small breed of dog that was trained to allert the owner when she was about to have a seizure.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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Shrug. What about the passenger seat up front?
 

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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1. Call EMSA.
2. Many times I have recently seen people with bogus service dogs. In fact, spoke people sell little doggy vests or cards that say "Service Dog" sold with for the express purpose of circumventing the access laws.

Here's a website narrowly skirting the edges:
http://www.servicedogtags.com/?gclid=CMH0pcnh_LACFY4FRQodFSGKIw
 

WuLabsWuTecH

Forum Deputy Chief
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Easy for us: The patient goes with us, the dog goes with the LEO. That way, the dog is not of a hazard to anyone (since it'll be in a cage effectively) and the pt doesn't need the dog b/c we'll take care of the patient while we're there.
 

CANDawg

Forum Asst. Chief
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Easy for us: The patient goes with us, the dog goes with the LEO. That way, the dog is not of a hazard to anyone (since it'll be in a cage effectively) and the pt doesn't need the dog b/c we'll take care of the patient while we're there.

+1

Tell the LEO that being a dog walker (driver?) is covered under the 'other duties as assigned' part of his/her job description.

I'd be surprised if service dogs were even allowed in the hospital anyway, or at least not very far inside the ED. If the person is blind, that's what wheelchairs/orderlies are for. If the person has seizures.... what's what nurses are for.
 
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bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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As per federal law the dog stays with the patient unless there is absolutely no possible way to avoid separating them. If the dog is a trained assistance animal I can guarantee you will not have a problem with the dog biting or being aggressive.

Not as black and white as I had thought here is a website explaining it.

http://servicedogcentral.org/content/faq/63

And an excerpt

For example, on a case-by-case basis a ambulance crew may decide not to permit a service animal in the treatment area of an ambulance if lack of space means the dog would interfere with the necessary movement of personnel providing emergency care. That might be a "fundamental alteration" if the presence of the dog prevents the emergency workers from performing their jobs.

A service animal might be excluded from an area that requires special clothing, such as a hospital ICU (Intensive Care Unit), or a computer "clean room," where the tiniest particle can ruin the manufacture of computer chips. A service animal might be excluded from an area where zoo exhibits can come in direct contact with human visitors, such as an aviary. On a case-by-case basis, a service animal might be removed if its presence is frightening a zoo exhibit to the point of harming the exhibit.

Still sounds like you better have a damn good reason to say no though.
 
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Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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As BBG mentioned, service dogs are some of the best trained dogs out there and have been subjected to numerous situations before being given to their actual owner. I flew home from Colorado one year with a service dog in training next to me. If the airplane doesn't bother the dog, I doubt the ambulance would. I suppose if possible it be nice to have a family member around to help "manage" the dog, but I don't think that would stop me from just transporting with the patient, dog, and me in back.
 

CANDawg

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As per federal law the dog stays with the patient unless there is absolutely no possible way to avoid separating them. If the dog is a trained assistance animal I can guarantee you will not have a problem with the dog biting or being aggressive.

Not as black and white as I had thought here is a website explaining it.

http://servicedogcentral.org/content/faq/63

And an excerpt

For example, on a case-by-case basis a ambulance crew may decide not to permit a service animal in the treatment area of an ambulance if lack of space means the dog would interfere with the necessary movement of personnel providing emergency care. That might be a "fundamental alteration" if the presence of the dog prevents the emergency workers from performing their jobs.

A service animal might be excluded from an area that requires special clothing, such as a hospital ICU (Intensive Care Unit), or a computer "clean room," where the tiniest particle can ruin the manufacture of computer chips. A service animal might be excluded from an area where zoo exhibits can come in direct contact with human visitors, such as an aviary. On a case-by-case basis, a service animal might be removed if its presence is frightening a zoo exhibit to the point of harming the exhibit.

Still sounds like you better have a damn good reason to say no though.

The key here is that the dog must remain under the control of the individual. If the patient is unconscious, altered mental status, or severely injured, they are unable to control the dog. That means the Americans with Disabilities Act or other legislation doesn't apply.
 

JPINFV

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+1

Tell the LEO that being a dog walker (driver?) is covered under the 'other duties as assigned' part of his/her job description.

I'd be surprised if service dogs were even allowed in the hospital anyway, or at least not very far inside the ED. If the person is blind, that's what wheelchairs/orderlies are for. If the person has seizures.... what's what nurses are for.

...then prepared to be surprised because they are. Hey, let's refuse to let people wear glasses. After all, if you can't see there are orderlies. Let's refuse to let people have dentures because, hey, soft mechanical diet.
 

nocoderob

Forum Crew Member
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Per my company policy (AMR), the dogs go unless the pt is unresponsive and therefore the handler cannot control the animal.
 

CANDawg

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...then prepared to be surprised because they are. Hey, let's refuse to let people wear glasses. After all, if you can't see there are orderlies. Let's refuse to let people have dentures because, hey, soft mechanical diet.
Dentures and glasses don't impact the ability for EMS to do their jobs.

There's also a lot of talk of how well trained they are. That might be true, but in the case of severe injury or trauma (say an MVA), the dog is NOT going to be calm, regardless of training. People getting run over with cars is not part of the scenario training they go through as puppies. (And if it is, someone should alert LE.) The dog may be aggressively protective of the pt, or at minimum so hyped that it interferes in treatment.

This all relates back to my point: if the dog is uncontrolled or uncontrollable, you are not required to take it.

My post was made before I did some research, granted. That said, the idea is that there are other options available to the pt on a temporary basis. No service dog is not a life/death issue.
 
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JPINFV

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Dentures and glasses don't impact the ability for EMS to do their jobs.

That's not the argument you laid down in the post I quoted down. You're arguing that the patient doesn't need them since alternatives exist, therefore there's no reason to take the dog. Furthermore, I don't think the assumption that the presence of a properly trained service dog is any more a negative impact.

There's also a lot of talk of how well trained they are. That might be true, but in the case of severe injury or trauma (say an MVA), the dog is NOT going to be calm, regardless of training. People getting run over with cars is not part of the scenario training they go through as puppies. (And if it is, someone should alert LE.) The dog may be aggressively protective of the pt, or at minimum so hyped that it interferes in treatment.

Is it too hard to go on a situation by situation basis? Saying "the dog WILL BE DANGEROUS, PERIOD" is as intellectually lazy as the people or protocols state that psych patients gets limb restraints. How can EMS be a profession if the providers refuse to actually use judgement?

This all relates back to my point: if the dog is uncontrolled or uncontrollable, you are not required to take it.
I agree. However that was never a part of the argument you made in the post I quoted earlier, nor the argument you presented in the rest of the current post.
 

CANDawg

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That's not the argument you laid down in the post I quoted down. You're arguing that the patient doesn't need them since alternatives exist, therefore there's no reason to take the dog. Furthermore, I don't think the assumption that the presence of a properly trained service dog is any more a negative impact.



Is it too hard to go on a situation by situation basis? Saying "the dog WILL BE DANGEROUS, PERIOD" is as intellectually lazy as the people or protocols state that psych patients gets limb restraints. How can EMS be a profession if the providers refuse to actually use judgement?


I agree. However that was never a part of the argument you made in the post I quoted earlier, nor the argument you presented in the rest of the current post.

I never once stated that there should be a one size fits all solution. In fact, I was saying just the opposite - that judgement should be used rather than blindly taking the dog in all cases.

As for the rest of your argument, I acknowledged that my initial post was made before I researched the issue a bit further, making your point moot.
 

Hockey

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I enjoy bringing em along. Never a problem before. But I like animals and the extra company
 

medicdan

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I was having this exact debate with a friend a few weeks ago, and he sent me this, from a nearby ambulance service that publishes their SOP/Policy manual online, and has a section on service animals. See below:
3.10.F. Transporting of Patient with a Service Animal

Service animals, for example, guide dogs utilized by visually impaired persons, shall be permitted to accompany the patient in the ambulance or wheelchair van unless the presence of the service animal will disrupt emergency or urgent patient care or there is some basis for the crew members to believe that the safety of the crew, the patient or others would be compromised by the presence of the service animal in the ambulance or wheelchair van.

EMS personnel should assess the level of care required to provide competent medical attention to the patient.

When the presence of a service animal in the ambulance might interfere with patient care, jeopardize the safety of the crew, the patient or others, or cause damage to the ambulance or equipment, personnel should make other arrangements for simultaneous transport of the service animal to the receiving facility. Unless emergency conditions dictate otherwise, absolutely every effort must be made to reunite the patient with the service animal at the time of the patient’s arrival at the receiving facility or other destination.

Acceptable alternative methods of transporting a service animal to the receiving facility include, but are not necessarily limited to, family members, friends or neighbors of the patient, or a law enforcement official. Attempt to obtain and document the consent of the patient for transport of the service animal by such person. If no such individuals are available, contact the service base or PSAP and request that additional manpower respond to transport the service animal.

Personnel should document on the patient care report instances where the patient utilizes a service animal, and should document on the patient care report whether or not the service animal was transported with the patient. If the service animal is not transported with the patient, a separate incident report should be maintained by the ambulance service describing the reasons that the service animal was not transported with the patient.
from http://www.proems.com/v2/employment_pnp3.cfm?contentID=80&title=41&titleName=Operations
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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I heard propofol works great on dogs....:ph34r:
 

Bullets

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My concern is how do I secure the dog during transport? it doesn't have the ability to brace itself in the event of an accident, and unsecured I dont want 90lbs of golden retriever coming at my head
 

medicdan

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My concern is how do I secure the dog during transport? it doesn't have the ability to brace itself in the event of an accident, and unsecured I dont want 90lbs of golden retriever coming at my head
Seat belt on the tech seat seems to make sense...
 
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