Self Defense for EMS

[Jon]

Umm.. time out. The vest isn't "bullet proof"... it's bullet resistant.

 

[TEK 679]

Enough is Enough

Shoot me already Jesus What a waste of time:excl:

 

[ILemt]

I have had to defend myself and my partner on several occasions.
Then again, I have had PD dump folks on me many times...
(Once I had 5 handcuffed patients in my rig at one time, i have many occasions when I have 2 or more on board) PD follows, and I have a cuff key in my wallet... talking tough usually works with that scenario, but I digress.

Ive had battle royale's on board with a pt my partner and 4 cops at once
Ive had a patient try and rape my medic
Ive been attacked
Ive been shot at (outside the rig)
Ive had patients try and stab me.
---

I don't wear kevlar because i cant afford it.
I don't have a baton, pepper spray, taser, or a gun.
I work at a service where many of us carry a handcuff key because PD NEVER rides with us, and frequently forces us to take cuffed patients.
I have knocked a patient cold and given him a concussion in the process.
I have kicked a patient in the face and broken his nose.
I have restrained many patients with soft lines and gauze rolls, and threatened more.

Did I enjoy doing any of this crap? No !
But I can honestly say that each time Ive ever done any of this, I was acting in defense of my patient, my partner, or myself.

As for weapons (gun, spray, baton etc), I say NO.
I have a minimag, but don't consider that a weapon.
In a pinch I can use the D cylinder and my metal clipboard, even the AED/defib unit.
But my three best weapons are my common sense, my partner, and our radio.

 

[ffemt8978]

Shoot me already Jesus What a waste of time:excl:

What is a waste of time? Your post, this thread, or the concept of defending yourself?

 

[MedicAngel]

While I personally haven't ever feared for my life in the back of a rig, I have had my paramedic and partner have a woman begin to go south on a call while I was the driver. Seeing legs begin to flay in the mirror I began to pull over when my partner called out she was okay, to step on it and get us to the hospital. I kept a good eye on her and kept asking how are things, are you okay, etc. If she had said at anytime she couldn't handle the woman, who thankfully was a small person, I would of had my partners back and been on the radio asking for help.

I have also been on calls where several people in our squad had a concealed gun. Did I like it? Sure didn't. Did we have words about that? Sure did. One of the people was a cop for his day job and thought that gave him the right to carry anytime he wanted, the other felt she had the right because she had a concealed weapons permit. My humble opinion is it gives the wing nut just one more chance to make a grab at or puts us all in a more dangerous situation should they realize you are carrying and I don't want my life or anyone else's to be put in jeapardy because you HAVE to carry a weapon and look or feel like you want to be Billy Bad Boy.

 

[mikeylikesit]

if you can't preform your job comfortably, without worrying about the patient taking you out, then it is very hard to preform your job well. i think if you are mentally and physically prepared for whatever situation may arise, then you will be much better off.

 

[para82frame]

I am shocked how many of you would just let a patient attack you and not be prepared to keep yourself alive. being in the moral right and dead is still dead. some of you need to take a step back and look at you and your partners safety. If you value the life of a druggie wacked out of there mind on PCP over your own then all I can say is I hope your funeral is as nice as you hoped.

 

[BossyCow]

I am shocked how many of you would just let a patient attack you and not be prepared to keep yourself alive. being in the moral right and dead is still dead. some of you need to take a step back and look at you and your partners safety. If you value the life of a druggie wacked out of there mind on PCP over your own then all I can say is I hope your funeral is as nice as you hoped.

Who says they are going to 'just let a patient attack' and 'not be prepared to keep yourself alive'? I think most of us rely on our ability to avoid an attack or diffuse a potentially violent patient with our brains instead of arming ourselves and seeing each patient as a potential killer.

It's not a matter of valuing a pts life (even the unsavory one you describe) over my own. I choose not to fear my patients. I behave carefully, weighing the risk vs gain on every call. In my opinion, carrying a weapon gives me too easy option instead of finding a non-violent solution to the problem.

 

[DT4EMS]

Who says they are going to 'just let a patient attack' and 'not be prepared to keep yourself alive'? I think most of us rely on our ability to avoid an attack or diffuse a potentially violent patient with our brains instead of arming ourselves and seeing each patient as a potential killer.

It's not a matter of valuing a pts life (even the unsavory one you describe) over my own. I choose not to fear my patients. I behave carefully, weighing the risk vs gain on every call. In my opinion, carrying a weapon gives me too easy option instead of finding a non-violent solution to the problem.

Recognition, avoidance, and preparation for "in-case" is the best course for sure. I am still not a fan of arming EMS. A lot of EMS assaults can be prevented by slowing down or backing up when things are looking sour.

There are still way too many actual physical assaults that do take place in EMS though. Actually a security guard was just killed in Springfield. He was in police custody and kicked the guard in the back of the head. The guard died 4 days later.

It happened in the ER.

 

[TheAfterAffect]

I guess its a perk for me that im a nice Sized guy, and Ex Football Player/Wrestler.


Plus you know, as has been stated the "Better be Good" Stick helps in any scenario where you'd have to worry about anything. As my partner has told me numerous times, If anything goes down and more manpower is needed, tell him, Hell pull over and come in back and give me a hand. Hes another big guy, all in all Ive been in many hazardous areas with nothing other then my EMS Uniform and essential items.

Ive never worried about carrying a weapon, or drivebys, or any of that when Im in these areas. Hell ive worked in CAMDEN (One of the former Murder Capitals of the USA) on calls and never even worried about anything happening. Why? because if you let it get to you, your gonna get messed up in the end.

 

[SouthsideEMT]

well the company i work for offers jujitsu free of charge every friday for about 3 hours. a good way to stay in shape and we learn self defense. now if the pt has a firearm, then its time to be smart and wait for the sheriffs to show up. maybe some should invest in self defense classes. just a thought

 

[emt19723]

no...having weapons is a bad thing. get yourself some good self-defense classes and find an aggressive behavior management class.

 

[ulrik]

i am going to start to take yoga and taijitsu classes along with one of my friends is going to teach me some mma.

 

[motownems]

Ulrik: If you its available I would recommend learning/familiarizing yourself with a traditional system (Judo, Aikido) rather than just jumping straight into MMA. This is because I found a lot of MMA instructors seem neglectful in teaching their students how to fall correctly; or about the spiritual side of martial arts.
Also in general take anything “self defense” moves with a grain of salt, nothing is in the real world is a cut and dry as it is when you are practicing on the mat. And remember there is only one mind set when it comes to self defence: I Will Make It Home.

 

[ulrik]

ok, thank you very much.

 

[fma08]

Self-Defense.... I like to go with the Haldol, Benedryl, Versed combo myself...<_<

But as stated before, (up here at least), there's a reason we wear a different color shirt than LEO's. Medical personnel we are, they are the force users.

Several sayings that work wonders:

Always know WHEN to get out of Dodge

Always know HOW to get out of Dodge

NEVER go into Dodge without the sheriff.


Now that said, I feel 100% opposite for those that are in the Tactical EMS position such as SWAT medics. They don't always get the luxury of scene safety. (those of you in tactical EMS, correct me if I am wrong)

 

[BossyCow]

Self-Defense.... I like to go with the Haldol, Benedryl, Versed combo myself...<_<

For yourself or others?

 

[Lone Star]

After sitting here and reading every post in this thread, (yes, all 12 pages so far); I've got a few things to say!

What I'm hearing is that fear of liability is the reason for putting your safety in the hands of others. I don't know if conventional defensive tools are the answer, or even practical, but I do know that there are many misconceptions expressed here about defense of yourself or others in your care. A patient suffering excited delirium doesn't are that you are the "good guys" and not cops. A drug abuser is an opportunist who would slit your throat and steal your rig because it's a means to an end. There seems to be a dangerous mindset here, with some, that says the danger will be reduced if you just play fair. Weapons don't have to be firearms. They can be tools, instruments or even just having a plan. Is this an overly simple concept and am I missing something?

Not every patient you get is going to be some 'drug seeking, murdering thug'!

Not every drug abuser wants to kill you. I hate to say it, but you're not 'that important' to them!

This is a sad sign of the times , we have some wanting to carry weapons , some saying we have to be politically correct and be nice when we're in danger , and others more concerned about legal ramifications if we do protect ourselves . What do we teach the rookies coming in , keeping in mind you don't always know you're walking into a danger zone ? They're going to be so confused it could cost them an injury or worse .

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE ! YOU HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF EVEN IN EMS ! THOUGH A PT. MAY BE MENTALLY ALTERED , THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAT ON US !

We 're talking a lot about scene safety , but I'm amazed at the niavity of some of you who should know better . Let's all get on the same page here .

First off, shouting isn't going to make your point any clearer. Neither is repetition/regurgitation of the same thing over and over.

I've worked in some of the worst areas of Metro Detroit. I've never been attacked by some drug abuser, never been 'ambulancejacked' or otherwise beaten senseless by a psych patient. And above all this, I've never worn kevlar or carried a firearm.

Oh yes, don't get me wrong...I HAVE had those 'really big guys' that could squish me like a bug without even trying! I had one guy who was about 6'8"/350 lbs and REALLY pissed off when we got there. Simply taking the time to talk to this guy and trying to find out what had him all fired up really helped to calm him down. His biggest 'problem' at the time is that he felt no one was listening to him.

I've seen the ever popular "D tank" and "E tank" theory mentioned several times. Guess what? You crack the coconut of a patient with a clipboard or a oxygen cylinder, and you can pretty well kiss your career goodbye; right along with your freedom, because you're going to jail!

We're not in EMS to "kick *** and take names", nor are we here to be Barney Badass!

Most of the proponents of carrying firearms, knives, batons, etc have relied on the age old "what if....." to justify their positions. Most of those "what if..." situations are only played out on television (and rarely there), or you will never find yourself in that position. Rather than drive yourself 'batty' trying to plan for an eventuality that may never materialize, focus on patient care, scene sizeup and getting the resources you need to keep you safe on scene mobilized!

And for the record I AM a card carrying member of the NRA, and I DO possess a concealed pistol license!

 

[rollingcode]

I work compton a lot, and I always keep a 4 inch knife on me, and in the event all hell breaking loose, use your D tank.

 

[thatJeffguy]

the second you fire a weapon in self defense, no matter how much in the right you think you are, your EMS career is over.

The second you die, your career is over.

I can always find another career.