Riverside Community College (CA) paramedic program 2011...

[sir.shocksalot]

Are the engines in Denver all BLS? Do any have ALS at all?

Yes all engines in Denver are BLS. Ambulances are double Paramedic. All critical life saving interventions can be performed by a BLS unit, and engines are only dispatched on critical calls and fire/hazmat/extrication/rescue calls. This way engines aren't roaring around town to help grandma who hasn't pooped in a few days and is now having abd pain. She doesn't need 4 firefighters and a fire-truck, she needs an ambulance and a paramedic.

Now where I work (just outside of denver) all engines have at LEAST 2 paramedics on them, with each ambulance having 1 paramedic. Yep, thats right, at least 3 paramedics per call (typically its 4 or 5). Most calls resemble a monkey copulating with a football. Plus these $500,000 engines will respond to the call, drive to the hospital to pick up their firefighter, then drive back to the station; and yes this is all for grandma with a bowel obstruction who really only needed something for her nausea and a ride to the hospital.

The second nursing schools and medical schools start incorporating PT and paramilitary BS into their education is about the same time we should be doing it. EMS is not the same work as LE or Fire, they require very different skill sets and demeanors. Educating people to blindly follow orders in the name of discipline is detrimental to patient care. Read what happens to patients when nurses don't feel they can question doctor's orders... patients die. Healthcare is a team effort where everyone has equal ability to voice opinions and concerns about the direction of patient care. Paramilitary crap is not conducive to this team effort approach.

PS. I am not saying the program sucks, I fully believe that good paramedics come out of there, I'm just questioning the inclusion of the paramilitary stuff.

 

[AJ Hidell]

not ridiculous if it works.

It doesn't. RCC -- while indeed better than many in the area -- is still a laughable joke nationwide. And all the paramilitary BS is a big reason for that. RCC caters not to those who want to be medical professionals, but to the 95 percent who wannabe firemen. All the stupid uniform and PT crap plays into that mindset. It is a waste of valuable time that should be spent on medicine.

You can tell right away what RCC is all about from the website. Any school that actually encourages you to get the quicky certification first, and then maybe get the degree later, is educationally unsound. That's like building a house before you pour the foundation. It's retarded.

RCC's program directors' PhD in education came out of a Cracker Jacks box. And his right hand man is a career CDF firemonkey. They sure know how to talk a good game though.

Given two equally prepared candidates, I'd put my money on the one coming out of Freeman being significantly better than the one going to RCC.

 

[Imacho]

I think it's cool to have a dual medic unit. It sounds like it works well in that area. Personally, I believe that way should be the standard. However, some divisions are saying they can't afford it and run single medic units.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I think it's cool to have a dual medic unit. It sounds like it works well in that area. Personally, I believe that way should be the standard. However, some divisions are saying they can't afford it and run single medic units.

That's a valid concern in Kalifornia, where they've been bankrupt for decades due to poor management. But medics don't cost a department any more than any other fireman, so it doesn't really bear out. Where it makes a difference is in the privates, where the glut of basics keeps wages artificially low.

 

[jgmedic]

It doesn't. RCC -- while indeed better than many in the area -- is still a laughable joke nationwide. And all the paramilitary BS is a big reason for that. RCC caters not to those who want to be medical professionals, but to the 95 percent who wannabe firemen. All the stupid uniform and PT crap plays into that mindset. It is a waste of valuable time that should be spent on medicine.

You can tell right away what RCC is all about from the website. Any school that actually encourages you to get the quicky certification first, and then maybe get the degree later, is educationally unsound. That's like building a house before you pour the foundation. It's retarded.

RCC's program directors' PhD in education came out of a Cracker Jacks box. And his right hand man is a career CDF firemonkey. They sure know how to talk a good game though.

Given two equally prepared candidates, I'd put my money on the one coming out of Freeman being significantly better than the one going to RCC.

Really? A school that holds spots for FD and ONLY sends interns to fire departments, and FD's in LACo at that. Having gone to RCC several years ago, I can tell you first hand, they do not cater to wannabe firemen. Many of the instructors, classroom and skills are not fire-based, out of the two associate directors, one is CDF, the other is not. I would take any intern who didn't intern in LA or OC.

 

[Death_By_Sexy]

Really? A school that holds spots for FD and ONLY sends interns to fire departments, and FD's in LACo at that. Having gone to RCC several years ago, I can tell you first hand, they do not cater to wannabe firemen. Many of the instructors, classroom and skills are not fire-based, out of the two associate directors, one is CDF, the other is not. I would take any intern who didn't intern in LA or OC.

Everytime I see this argument for "Durr, they only send students to the fire department, that school sucks..." or "Hurrr, every medic that comes out of LACO is a piece of ****." I shake my head. Just take a look at LACo, the only option for first in 911 service is the fire department. What would you prefer the school do? Send their interns with a 3rd service ambulance company that is the 911 transport in the area? Perhaps tearing tape for the fire medic would be a good way to spend an internship? Freeman does what it can given the terrible surrounding area that is LA.


This whole penis size determined by where I went to school thing is utterly ridiculous.

 

[jgmedic]

Everytime I see this argument for "Durr, they only send students to the fire department, that school sucks..." or "Hurrr, every medic that comes out of LACO is a piece of ****." I shake my head. Just take a look at LACo, the only option for first in 911 service is the fire department. What would you prefer the school do? Send their interns with a 3rd service ambulance company that is the 911 transport in the area? Perhaps tearing tape for the fire medic would be a good way to spend an internship? Freeman does what it can given the terrible surrounding area that is LA.


This whole penis size determined by where I went to school thing is utterly ridiculous.

Maybe they could send students to one of the 3 neighboring counties where there is non-FD ALS and the protocols aren't absolute crap. There are ways. I don't think every medic in LACo is terrible, I work PT in LACo. I don't think all FD medics are terrible. I do think it is a bad place to train new paramedics. DHS has even said that the reason they are so Mother May I is that there are over 4000 certified medics working in LACo and there are a bunch of knuckleheads(cough, Lancaster, cough), ruining it and they can't discipline these guys without a bunch of flak from the union. This is also based on my personal experience with new medics trained in LA coming out to counties where they have to think without a base to call on every response. Some can do it, others can't.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Really? A school that holds spots for FD and ONLY sends interns to fire departments, and FD's in LACo at that. ... I would take any intern who didn't intern in LA or OC.

Sorry... I didn't realise we were comparing students and departments. I thought we were comparing schools. My mistake.

Having gone to RCC several years ago, I can tell you first hand, they do not cater to wannabe firemen. Many of the instructors, classroom and skills are not fire-based, out of the two associate directors, one is CDF, the other is not.

Having lived in RC (Murietta) and LACo (Manhattan Beach) for years, and attended a lot of classes with RCC and Freeman grads, and discussed it at length with RCCs director (who is a very good guy), it is my educated conclusion that it is very overrated. However, again I say, they're better than most. That's just not saying much in SoCal.

 

[AJ Hidell]

PS. And they'd be a much better school if they spent half the time on medicine that they spend on PT and uniform BS.

And if you think protocols define the quality of a medic, that is another poor reflection on what RCC teaches. But then again, that is the predominant mentality in SoCal.

 

[jgmedic]

PS. And they'd be a much better school if they spent half the time on medicine that they spend on PT and uniform BS.

And if you think protocols define the quality of a medic, that is another poor reflection on what RCC teaches. But then again, that is the predominant mentality in SoCal.

I don't think protocols define a medic, I do think that when you work in a system that discourages critical thinking, it does little to help an intern in that same situation. I hate SoCal EMS, believe me, if I could, I'd be on the 1st plane to somewhere with a decent 3rd service. RCC isn't perfect, but Freeman is just as overrated, due to it's loose association with UCLA. I know good and bad medics from both schools. But protocols are also at least a small indicator of how much the EMSA trusts the providers in their system.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I don't think protocols define a medic, I do think that when you work in a system that discourages critical thinking, it does little to help an intern in that same situation. I hate SoCal EMS, believe me, if I could, I'd be on the 1st plane to somewhere with a decent 3rd service. RCC isn't perfect, but Freeman is just as overrated, due to it's loose association with UCLA. I know good and bad medics from both schools. But protocols are also at least a small indicator of how much the EMSA trusts the providers in their system.

^ Agreed!