Professional liability insurance as a volunteer

[bigbaldguy]

Anyone carry professional insurance as a volunteer. When I looked at the hpso site they have a place for "volunteer ems" but then it wants to know if you receive a w2 or pay your own taxes? I have home, auto and personal liability out the wazoo but I figure a little extra coverage never hurts. Any suggestions on limits? I'm assuming since I'm a BLS provider I can probably go with lower limits? Any input on this would be appreciated.

 

[ffemt8978]

I carry it as a volunteer. I can't help you about the tax issue, because we're reimbursed on a per call basis by the county and receive W-2's.

 

[bigbaldguy]

I carry it as a volunteer. I can't help you about the tax issue, because we're reimbursed on a per call basis by the county and receive W-2's.

You get paid for calls as a volunteer? I think we get points that can be converted to coffee mugs and beer coozies or something. I guess since I don't receive a w2 then it has to be option 2.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Ok finally figured out HPSO web site. A 1000000/3000000 policy for a volunteer basic/intermediate in their first year who makes less than 600 dollars a year in compensation is only 48 dollars so I figure I'd be an idiot not to get it.

 

[Melclin]

You aren't covered under good Samaritan legislation of some sort? Or by your service?

Also, what on earth can an EMT get sued for?

 

[Madmedic780]

I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not..

EMT's can be sued for a lot of things, lets say they accidentally drop the patient and the patient gets injured as a result. Also liability during transport if you were to get into a serious wreak. I've been included in a blanket law suit once, where a small kid coded during transport and the ER was unable to revive him (dx was undetected congenital heart defect). The parents (out of anger I think) came after the ER and my department. However after a couple of days they decided against it and dropped it.

 

[Melclin]

My question about the good Samaritan stuff still applies. A volunteer acting in good faith isn't protected under most US state laws? That'd suck.

What about the service you're volunteering for? Surely they cover their vollies. They couldn't expect vollies to organize and pay for insurance on top of volunteering their time could they (I say that knowing full well the answer will probably be "They sure can")?

You make a fair point about living in a ridiculously litigious society. But I think it was EMSlaw, who I don't know comes around these parts too much anymore (which is a shame) has mentioned that lack of successful lawsuits against paramedics, even in America (correct me if I'm wrong) and that the constant CYA culture in EMS is a bit of a beat up.

We all did a subject on health law at uni, and civil suits were almost non-existent on our radar. S**t loads about end of life law, and various kinds of gross negligence, but we really don't have to worry about people suing us for breathing.

 

[Chimpie]

The Good Samaritan law goes out the window when you're responding as part of an agency/department, volly or paid, because you're no longer responding as a samaritan.

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[TransportJockey]

The Good Samaritan law goes out the window when you're responding as part of an agency/department, volly or paid, because you're no longer responding as a samaritan.

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Not everywhere. Here in TX vollies are covered under the Good Samaritan law as long as they don't get paid.

EDIT: At least as I understand it based on what law lectures we have been presented with in Medic school.

 

[akflightmedic]

Not everywhere. Here in TX vollies are covered under the Good Samaritan law as long as they don't get paid.

EDIT: At least as I understand it based on what law lectures we have been presented with in Medic school.

Texas has many different laws and this is one of them....apparently even volunteers are protected under the Good Sam Act even if they are responding with an agency...provided they do not collect more than $500 a year in wages or reimbursements.

http://www.texmed.org/template.aspx?id=2107

 

[Chimpie]

Not everywhere. Here in TX vollies are covered under the Good Samaritan law as long as they don't get paid.

EDIT: At least as I understand it based on what law lectures we have been presented with in Medic school.

Texas has many different laws and this is one of them....apparently even volunteers are protected under the Good Sam Act even if they are responding with an agency...provided they do not collect more than $500 a year in wages or reimbursements.

http://www.texmed.org/template.aspx?id=2107

Very interesting. I always heard it didn't apply since you're responding as part of a professional department. Then again, this was ten years ago.

Either way, be sure to protect yourself and your assets.

 

[samiam]

In Michigan even paid ems is covered.

Immunity from liability

Sec. 20965. (1) Unless an act or omission is the result of gross negligence or willful misconduct, the acts or omissions of a medical first responder, emergency medical technician, emergency medical technician specialist, paramedic, medical director of a medical control authority or his or her designee, or, subject to subsection (5), an individual acting as a clinical preceptor of a department-approved education program sponsor while providing services to a patient outside a hospital, in a hospital before transferring patient care to hospital personnel, or in a clinical setting that are consistent with the individual's licensure or additional training required by the medical control authority including, but not limited to, services described in subsection (2), or consistent with an approved procedure for that particular education program do not impose liability in the treatment of a patient on those individuals or any of the following persons: (a) The authorizing physician or physician's designee.

(b) The medical director and individuals serving on the governing board, advisory body, or committee of the medical control authority and an employee of the medical control authority.

(c) The person providing communications services or lawfully operating or utilizing supportive electronic communications devices.

(d) The life support agency or an officer, member of the staff, or other employee of the life support agency.

(e) The hospital or an officer, member of the staff, nurse, or other employee of the hospital.

(f) The authoritative governmental unit or units.

(g) Emergency personnel from outside the state.

(h) The education program medical director.

(i) The education program instructor-coordinator.

(j) The education program sponsor and education program sponsor advisory committee.

(k) The student of a department-approved education program who is participating in an education program-approved clinical setting.

(l) An instructor or other staff employed by or under contract to a department-approved education program for the purpose of providing training or instruction for the department-approved education program.

(m) The life support agency or an officer, member of the staff, or other employee of the life support agency providing the clinical setting described in subdivision (k).

(n) The hospital or an officer, member of the medical staff, or other employee of the hospital providing the clinical setting described in subdivision (k).

(2) Subsection (1) applies to services consisting of the use of an automated external defibrillator on an individual who is in or is exhibiting symptoms of cardiac distress.

(3) Unless an act or omission is the result of gross negligence or willful misconduct, the acts or omissions of any of the persons named below, while participating in the development of protocols under this part, implementation of protocols under this part, or holding a participant in the emergency medical services system accountable for department-approved protocols under this part, does not impose liability in the performance of those functions: (a) The medical director and individuals serving on the governing board, advisory body, or committees of the medical control authority or employees of the medical control authority.

(b) A participating hospital or freestanding surgical outpatient facility in the medical control authority or an officer, member of the medical staff, or other employee of the hospital or freestanding surgical outpatient facility.

(c) A participating agency in the medical control authority or an officer, member of the medical staff, or other employee of the participating agency.

(d) A nonprofit corporation that performs the functions of a medical control authority.

(4) Subsections (1) and (3) do not limit immunity from liability otherwise provided by law for any of the persons listed in subsections (1) and (3).

(5) The limitation on liability granted to a clinical preceptor under subsection (1) applies only to an act or omission of the clinical preceptor relating directly to a student's clinical training activity or responsibility while the clinical preceptor is physically present with the student during the clinical training activity, and does not apply to an act or omission of the clinical preceptor during that time that indirectly relates or does not relate to the student's clinical training activity or responsibility.

Link: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(sk....aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-20965

 

[emt seeking first job]

I would only recommend it if you have substantial assets that could be attached.

Different states have different laws on that.

Sometimes having insurance invites a claim or lawsuit against you. Your agency has coverage that covers you, in the scope of your duties.

If the premium is around $50 a year, that is an indication that EMTs don't get sued so much.

Its like thirty years ago airports sold flight insurance. For $10 or so your beneficiary could collect $ 1/2 million.

Obviously they did it because the chance of dying on any one commercial flight is next to nil..

Injury lawyers work on contingency. If there is no chance of getting paid, ie , you have no insurance, they dont want the case. That is why most states REQUIRE auto insurance. If there were no insurance, nobody would ever collect from auto injury cases.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Thanks for all the info folks. I decided to go ahead and get the coverage. Even though it's unlikely that as an EMT B Ill do something medically that might be viewed as negligence this insurance also covers me while driving the ambulance and according to the good Samaritan laws here in Texas "And finally, the harm may not have been caused by the volunteer operating a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft, or other vehicle for which the State requires the operator or the owner of the vehicle, craft, or vessel to possess an operator's license or maintain insurance". If nothing else it will make me feel better having it even if I never have to use it.

 

[Jon]

Ok finally figured out HPSO web site. A 1000000/3000000 policy for a volunteer basic/intermediate in their first year who makes less than 600 dollars a year in compensation is only 48 dollars so I figure I'd be an idiot not to get it.

You aren't covered under good Samaritan legislation of some sort? Or by your service?

Also, what on earth can an EMT get sued for?

I pay about $150/year for a policy with similar numbers, that covers me as Volly/Paid BLS/ALS, as well as working as a CPR/EMT instructor.

I look at the cost, and figure that $150 isn't much money for peace of mind. In the event I'm ever sued, I'll have insurance that will pay for a lawyer to protect MY interests (rather than a company attorney who may be willing to throw me under the bus to help the company). And in the event someone wins a judgment against me, theres some money as a buffer before I loose my car, etc.

Here's a few threads that a quick search found that discuss some of the viewpoints. The earliest seems to be thread #61, started back in June of 2004, the month of our founding!
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=61
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=17660
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=15827
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=8575

 

[HMFD166]

In NY, you are not covered under good samaritan laws when responding to a call.

Very interesting. I always heard it didn't apply since you're responding as part of a professional department. Then again, this was ten years ago.

Either way, be sure to protect yourself and your assets.

 

[scottyb]

In NY, you are not covered under good samaritan laws when responding to a call.

Might want to check that. It is not that simple.

NY 3013

A certified first responder, emergency medical technician or
advanced emergency medical technician, whether or not he or she is
acting on behalf of an ambulance service or advanced life support first
response service, who voluntarily and without the expectation of
monetary compensation renders medical assistance in an emergency to a
person who is unconscious, ill or injured shall not be liable for
damages alleged to have been sustained by such person or for damages for
the death of such person alleged to have occurred by reason of an act or
omission in the rendering of such medical assistance in an emergency
unless it is established that such injuries were or such death was
caused by gross negligence on the part of such certified first
responder, emergency medical technician or advanced emergency medical
technician.

Seems like it has to be gross negligence.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Found this info through my insurer on cases involving EMT/Paramedic lawsuits. Keep in mind this info is provided by the same company that wrote my policy. You'll notice that most of the cases involve Paramedics but a few do involve EMT.

Sorry for some reason the link I posted isn't working but if you go to HPSO and look under case studies you can find the info. The majority of the EMT cases have to do with things like failure to transport, and an obese man falling off of the gurney.

http://www.hpso.com

 

[emt seeking first job]

I am just curious, and I am not going to tell anyone NOT to get insurance, however, can anyone find a link where an EMT or Paramedic (employed by a service, working in the scope of their duties) had his or her own personal assets attached after a civil judgement ?

 

[bigbaldguy]

Not exactly what you were referring too but this article has some interesting info on issues regarding EMS being sued. Here is the excerpt.

" Employees of government EMS systems, including municipal and county EMTs and paramedics, enjoy another type of statutory protection, called sovereign immunity. In most states, sovereign immunity statutes mirror the language of the Federal Tort Claims Act, which requires the U.S. government to indemnify EMS personnel for negligent acts, while imposing a limit of $100,000 on damages. Thus, in most states, a patient who sues a municipal EMT for negligence may collect up to $100,000 from the city in which the incident occurred, but nothing from the EMT personally.

Note that these statutes provide immunity from liability, not from lawsuits. In other words, they do not keep plaintiffs from hauling EMTs and paramedics into court, even though a judge may ultimately dismiss the claim. Because the defendant may incur significant legal expenses in the process, it's better to avoid the lawsuit entirely, and to rely on statutory immunity only as a last line of defense."

And here is the link to the actual article.

http://www.emsworld.com/print/EMS-World/Surviving-a-Lawsuit/1$6186

My concern was not that I would be found liable but that I would be sued at all. As it's often said anybody can sue anybody these days.