Police Based Paramedics

[EMDispatch]

Eek.

They're working to improve their system, but the only advantage the troopers provide is speed. Which is often not a factor considering travel times.

 

[medicsb]

The good thing is, medics on the Maryland helicopters get a lot of experience, quickly. Those guys fly everybody.

They're call volume has dropped. 4500 in 2006 down to 2900 last year (with 7 helicopters in service).

 

[Tigger]

SEVEN?!?

Holy crap. I had no idea their program was so big. And you'd think with how big those helicopters are and the fact they do a fair number of flights that they'd want to be able to fly with two providers.

 

[chaz90]

SEVEN?!?

Holy crap. I had no idea their program was so big. And you'd think with how big those helicopters are and the fact they do a fair number of flights that they'd want to be able to fly with two providers.

I believe their new helicopters are staffed with two trooper medics.

 

[EMDispatch]

I believe their new helicopters are staffed with two trooper medics.

At least on the shore, they're a flight medic and a 2nd in training. They will drop the 2nd for a local paramedic if the situation requires. I'd have to watch the training video again, but I believe they can also fly with the ground paramedic as a 3rd.

 

[chaz90]

At least on the shore, they're a flight medic and a 2nd in training. They will drop the 2nd for a local paramedic if the situation requires. I'd have to watch the training video again, but I believe they can also fly with the ground paramedic as a 3rd.

Right, I was more replying to Tigger's thought that they'd want to fly with two. I've had very little interaction with MSP Aviation, so most of what I'm talking about is third hand.

 

[EMDispatch]

Right, I was more replying to Tigger's thought that they'd want to fly with two. I've had very little interaction with MSP Aviation, so most of what I'm talking about is third hand.

Gotcha,

The other big thing to remember about MSP is that they are not just medevac units. 20% of their calls are SAR and LE related only.

 

[rescue1]

Nassau Long island: http://www.police.co.nassau.ny.us/eab.htm

QUOTE]

I volunteer in Nassau County, and this is not strictly true. The AMTs who work for the Nassau County PD Emergency Ambulance Bureau are not sworn law enforcement, and do not carry firearms. (AMTs are either EMT-CC or EMP-P level and practice ALS.)

It's actually an odd system. AMTs are assigned to an ambulance, alone. When there is a call for an aided case, the ambulance with the AMT is dispatched, along with two squad cars of regular police. When a patient is transported, the AMT is in the back, one officer drives, and the other follows so he can return the driver to his car. In an arrest or other case where more than one provider is needed in the back, either a second ambulance in dispatched, or an officer will ride to assist. All officers were trained as CFRs, and many are EMT-B or higher.

As an aside, The Port Authority Police Departmnt (covers the NYC airports, among other places) also uses armed police as ALS responders. I just handed a patient off to them last week when someone had a seizure on my flight into JFK. . .

That seems a little bit inefficient....

 

[Crackcicle]

That seems a little bit inefficient....

It's incredibly inefficient. Nassau county has one of the worst EMS systems in the country.

 

[CentralCalEMT]

Is it as inefficient as a 3-4 person engine company, 2 person ALS squad, and two person ambulance on every call like some systems do?

 

[rescue1]

Is it as inefficient as a 3-4 person engine company, 2 person ALS squad, and two person ambulance on every call like some systems do?

I would say it's equally inefficient, yeah. Regardless of the amount of people on each piece of apparatus, the fact is you're taking 3 of them out of service to deal with one call.

I think fire department (BLS!) first response is appropriate for some calls, depending on the system in place, and I think ALS chase units may even be better than medic/basic trucks, but I think the LA County/Southern CA EMS system is set up to be the most inefficient use of fire and EMS resources that I've seen. It's like its designed to make everyone involved as unhappy as possible.

 

[gonefishing]

Is it as inefficient as a 3-4 person engine company, 2 person ALS squad, and two person ambulance on every call like some systems do?

(Cough) L.A. county........

 

[gonefishing]

I would say it's equally inefficient, yeah. Regardless of the amount of people on each piece of apparatus, the fact is you're taking 3 of them out of service to deal with one call.

I think fire department (BLS!) first response is appropriate for some calls, depending on the system in place, and I think ALS chase units may even be better than medic/basic trucks, but I think the LA County/Southern CA EMS system is set up to be the most inefficient use of fire and EMS resources that I've seen. It's like its designed to make everyone involved as unhappy as possible.

Have to agree. Alot of calls don't require 6 fire fighters to stand around and do nothing. Big red rolled out to every call with a squad. Why? To make it seem like they serve a purpose. Its all over powerful unions and the justification of tax payer spending.

 

[EpiEMS]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._firefighters_at_odds_over_medical_calls.html

Fascinating example of a problem: “We don’t need to justify our jobs. Paramedics have to justify their jobs. They’ve got one role to play, and that’s it."

Now, in the US:

 

[Angel]

Have to agree. Alot of calls don't require 6 fire fighters to stand around and do nothing. Big red rolled out to every call with a squad. Why? To make it seem like they serve a purpose. Its all over powerful unions and the justification of tax payer spending.

this

 

[MonkeyArrow]

But isn't a three to four person engine company responding to appropriately triaged calls just a more efficient use of available of personnel as opposed to assigning a second medic unit. Say that you're dispatched to a code/trauma/resp. distress call, I surrey hope that you're not trying to work that code with your two person ambulance crew. Assuming you don't have a mechanical compression device or a ventilator, one will have to bag and one will have to compress. That leaves you with no one to do...the rest. Instead of pulling a second medic crew and leaving their first due area uncovered, it will serve the community much better so send an engine, which probably wasn't going to be fighting a fire anyways, to assist the original medic.

 

[gonefishing]

But isn't a three to four person engine company responding to appropriately triaged calls just a more efficient use of available of personnel as opposed to assigning a second medic unit. Say that you're dispatched to a code/trauma/resp. distress call, I surrey hope that you're not trying to work that code with your two person ambulance crew. Assuming you don't have a mechanical compression device or a ventilator, one will have to bag and one will have to compress. That leaves you with no one to do...the rest. Instead of pulling a second medic crew and leaving their first due area uncovered, it will serve the community much better so send an engine, which probably wasn't going to be fighting a fire anyways, to assist the original medic.

With todays dispatcher training usually its easy to figure out the resources for the call.

 

[Angel]

But isn't a three to four person engine company responding to appropriately triaged calls just a more efficient use of available of personnel as opposed to assigning a second medic unit. Say that you're dispatched to a code/trauma/resp. distress call, I surrey hope that you're not trying to work that code with your two person ambulance crew. Assuming you don't have a mechanical compression device or a ventilator, one will have to bag and one will have to compress. That leaves you with no one to do...the rest. Instead of pulling a second medic crew and leaving their first due area uncovered, it will serve the community much better so send an engine, which probably wasn't going to be fighting a fire anyways, to assist the original medic.

in my area, the engine which can have 1-3 medics (3 person engine) is dispatched to EVERY call. the medic can cancel them on scene or en route if the medic gets there first and can rule the call as BS, but 98% of the time, the medic is seconds or a minute or 2 behind the engine and majority of the time is useless except a first set of vitals. on codes obviously the more hands the better. but its most often unnecessary to have the engine respond to every call.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

in my area, the engine which can have 1-3 medics (3 person engine) is dispatched to EVERY call. the medic can cancel them on scene or en route if the medic gets there first and can rule the call as BS, but 98% of the time, the medic is seconds or a minute or 2 behind the engine and majority of the time is useless except a first set of vitals. on codes obviously the more hands the better. but its most often unnecessary to have the engine respond to every call.

Ya this is typical on the westcoast, we did the same thing in Portland. Its the fire departments way to exploit EMS as a way to save firemen's jobs and justify there existence and bloated budget. Its an absolute joke

 

[Scott33]

It's incredibly inefficient. Nassau county has one of the worst EMS systems in the country.

Not to mention the prehistoric protocols they had prior to April of this year.