Off-Duty Response

[Milla3P]

Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.

The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.

Do you go to the fast food restaurant?

Are you in an area that is covered by a volunteer or semi-volunteer agency?

Does this agency permit responding to the scene of a possible emergency in your POV?

Are you a member of said agency/ covered by their liability insurance?

If No to any of these then ABSOLUTELY NOT.

If No to any of these why do you have a scanner?

Who or what is going to protect/ cover you if YOU become injured or your property is damaged on the way?

Forget about Good Samaritan Laws and Duty to Act. Think about your well being, turn of your Whacker Box and go watch a movie or another episode of Emergency!

Now let's all take a breather and wait 3 weeks until someone else asks this question again.

 

[RocketMedic]

When I worked at a hospital, I was often the second-out crew (on-duty, but not first-out). Uniformed, paid (somewhat) and on-duty.

We'd occasionally respond POV to things we knew the first crew would need a hand on, but that was only with coordination with the crew.

 

[medic17]

I am sure somebody in that restaurant knows cpr. Let it go and go home.

There is a big difference between a medic's CPR and that of a bystander even at BLS no equipment level. The average CPR card holder has never ran a code and tends to forget the rhythm and depth needed (something that is hard to instruct over a phone). The chances of someone really knowing CPR who only had 20 hrs or so of training a year ago are slim. That said i would not scan the 911 frequency looking for a code.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Absolutely not. How would you feel if you had to call 911 and then out of nowhere some bro shows up out of nowhere and says he is here to help?

Ummm that's kinda how 911 always works, I thought it was kinda the point.

 

[EMSrush]

I wouldn't have a scanner in my vehicle. But if I did, no, I would not respond. I'm off, and it's not my call. The only way I could come close to intervening is if it happened right in front of me. But to go and search out a patient? Nope.

 

[bigbaldguy]

If you read RCW 4.24.300 which is our good samaritan law you will see that volunteers and professional medical providers acting WITHOUT compensation and in an official capacity (i.e. at a health clinic) will be covered. It does NOT protect an EMS worker who decides to render aid at an accident scene.

Umm yeah it does.

It doesn't use the term "accident scene" it uses the term "scene of an emergency". A guy going down in a restaurant would qualify.

Any person, including but not limited to, a volunteer provider of emergency or medical services, who without compensation or the expectation of compensation renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency or who participates in transporting, not for compensation, therefrom an injured person or persons for emergency medical treatment shall not be liable for civil damages resulting from any act or omission in the rendering of such emergency care or in transporting such persons

It doesn't say anything about identifying themselves as a medical provider, nor does it say anything about doctors, nurses, EMTs being held to a different standard. In fact it does the opposite. Any person is any person.

 

[Tigger]

Ummm that's kinda how 911 always works, I thought it was kinda the point.

I suppose you could look at that way. At least when you call 911, the bros showing up are generally wearing a uniform and have equipment and means to get you to the hospital. This in contrast to some stranger showing up in street clothes with nothing.

 

[EMT B]

I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?

 

[Tigger]

I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?

When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.

 

[bigbaldguy]

I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?

That's a fair point. Many people on here forget that rural/metro systems have some very significant differences in how cals have to be handled response wise.

 

[Handsome Robb]

When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.

Not jeans and a T-shirt? Damn I've been doing it wrong this whole time!

 

[EMT B]

When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.

If I am responding to a call, I will put on my polo or at the very least a tshirt...i dont walk in wearing a GAP sweatshirt and Flannel PJ bottoms..


EDIT: however I will say that most people off duty that respond to things like a code ARE in their jeans, polo, and boots...
on another note, i dont think responding personnel will get turned away because they look "unprofessional". Hi im here to help! pt: i dont want you i want the people on duty...- said no patient ever

 

[TransportJockey]

I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?

Nope, not change it at all for me.

 

[EMT B]

what if you started getting paid if you signed on as responding? I know some departments do that too....

 

[TransportJockey]

what if you started getting paid if you signed on as responding? I know some departments do that too....

Nope. If I'm off, I'm off. Most I will do is call 911. I work two paid agencies and am only volunteering with a FD so they pay for classes, so I won't waste any of my off time.

 

[mycrofft]

Stray shots:
1. In many places scanners are not legal in your POV unless there are certain circumstances, such as you are the local fire chief. In many places responding to emergencies using a scanner is frowned upon legally.
2. If you are in a service that is volunteer and brought out by pager or sirens or whatever, then fine, you're being a volunteer. If you aren't, you are freelancing.
3. One aspect of Good Sam is that, if emergency service is already available, you cannot step ahead or shoulder in and provide with expectation that you will be covered. Freelancing with a scanner cannot be interpreted otherwise unless its your vollie FD's way of getting members out to a scene.
4. I cannot imagine that a 911 resource pool will be so tied up, other than a disaster. There are usually mutual aid or cross-station staffing to cover it.
5. As was noted above, what exactly are you going to do anyway? (Actually, the best thing you could do is keep others and yourself from doing bad things, like smearing butter on burns or trying to force open a seizing person's mouth).

That said, what if the scenario were that you didn't have a scanner but someone ran out into the street and called for help in general? Then you are a classic Good Sam as long as you meet the other criteria and yield when 911 shows up. After studying it at length, I think the Good Sam laws are not only a shield against people being afraid to help, they offer a guideline for reasonable action.

 

[Tigger]

If I am responding to a call, I will put on my polo or at the very least a tshirt...i dont walk in wearing a GAP sweatshirt and Flannel PJ bottoms..


EDIT: however I will say that most people off duty that respond to things like a code ARE in their jeans, polo, and boots...
on another note, i dont think responding personnel will get turned away because they look "unprofessional". Hi im here to help! pt: i dont want you i want the people on duty...- said no patient ever

Think again, I have and will continue to tell people that I am fine and will be waiting for the ambulance.

I understand that the general public is more likely to freak out and accept the help of anyone that shows up, but that is absolutely no excuse not to represent yourself in a professional manner or freelance. Yes, I'll be wearing my street clothes if someone codes in front of me, but I also wasn't listening to a scanner and self dispatching myself.

Stray shots:
1. In many places scanners are not legal in your POV unless there are certain circumstances, such as you are the local fire chief. In many places responding to emergencies using a scanner is frowned upon legally.
2. If you are in a service that is volunteer and brought out by pager or sirens or whatever, then fine, you're being a volunteer. If you aren't, you are freelancing.
3. One aspect of Good Sam is that, if emergency service is already available, you cannot step ahead or shoulder in and provide with expectation that you will be covered. Freelancing with a scanner cannot be interpreted otherwise unless its your vollie FD's way of getting members out to a scene.
4. I cannot imagine that a 911 resource pool will be so tied up, other than a disaster. There are usually mutual aid or cross-station staffing to cover it.
5. As was noted above, what exactly are you going to do anyway? (Actually, the best thing you could do is keep others and yourself from doing bad things, like smearing butter on burns or trying to force open a seizing person's mouth).

That said, what if the scenario were that you didn't have a scanner but someone ran out into the street and called for help in general? Then you are a classic Good Sam as long as you meet the other criteria and yield when 911 shows up. After studying it at length, I think the Good Sam laws are not only a shield against people being afraid to help, they offer a guideline for reasonable action.

How would it be illegal to put a scanner in one's vehicle?

 

[mycrofft]

They pass a law against it?
Let me google a bit. Used ot be law in Calif, per my former bro in law with the LAPD.
====================
OK here's one website:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/police-radio-scanner-apps-thats-not-10-4-123172
As he says, fifty states, fifty (and more) laws. Some restrict use of a mobile scanner to use in the commission of a crime (watch out of freelancing is illegal where you are), others forbid it without a FCC license, etc etc.

Law or no law, if someone sued you and it was discovered that you drove around with a scanner and equipment and without sanction from your FD or whatever, then the GOod Sam defense might be challenged.

 

[EMT B]

maybe my town is just different, but everybody has a radio and a radio number...even when they are off duty. no need for a scanner...

 

[TransportJockey]

maybe my town is just different, but everybody has a radio and a radio number...even when they are off duty. no need for a scanner...

In that case you are getting dispatched, since your station is being dispatched. When I volunteer (rarely do, not worth my time) I respond to all callouts in my district when I'm at the station (district is 45 minutes from home and prohibits POV response to scene anyways). But I do NOT respond to other districts unless I am mutual aided or it sounds like a medic might be needed