medics with attitudes

[CodyHolt83]

I just got my basic in December, so I havn't really experienced it with my new certification. I know where I sit on the food chain of EMS. If I do something wrong, I expect to be told. If I do something right, I don't expect anything. I'm a dispatcher--trained to do things without praise.

 

[CANMAN]

USAFmedic, while I understand your points, I am going to agree to disagree on some things and pretty much leave it at that. We could go back and forth all day long and the bottom line is neither of us truely know each other's backgrounds, training, work history, etc.

 

[BigPoppa]

personally i deal with way to much. i work and volenteer with both my agencies being als. the als providers that think they are higher then GOD and think that i as a BLS provider am on scene to carry there stuff and be their goffer...... there is an easy way to deal with that. after the call i simply take them aside and talk to them. i usually take one of the things that they said that were condisending and through it beack in their face and in my exsperience they have realized how much of a jerk that they sounded like. for those who are still standing on their milk crete thinking they are better than anyone who has walked the earth i go out of my way to prove them wrong. some people call me a :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: for it but im okay with that because im not losing any sleep over their ignorence....... but if they really think that they are that good they will lose sleep over the fact that you came to them and talked to them about it .

good luck some people refuse change!

have any of them told you about a dictionary or a spell checker?

 

[njff/emt]

The majority of the medics I work with are great. There are however afew that I believe don't have the GOD complex but are either having a very bad day or is never in a pleasant mood. For them I ask if they need help with anything and if they say no, I just let them do their job and assist them if they need it. If I feel like they were way out of line of how they treated me and my crew while we were being professional and respectful, I let my director know of the situation to see if we can work things out before it gets out of hand. All in all everybody has a bad day, sometimes more than others. So if they are nasty, after you're done with the job and they're still the hospital try to talk to them and see how they are doing, maybe they just have to vent and got alot of pressure on them. If they still brush you off, oh well at least you tried. Sometimes I think that they bring personal issues into work and things get worse from there. I just try to never take things personal and let it roll off, just some food for thought.

 

[MediMike]

Interesting view points all around I gotta agree with the unpopular opinion that was mentioned earlier though. This IS my call. Yes we work together on it, but it is MINE and what I say is whats going to happen. Arrogance? No. Scene management and control. I will be more than happy to explain my reasoning at a later point, but while we are there I will be making the determination of whether this is an ALS or BLS patient, what the differential diagnosis is, and what the treatment modalities will be. Now, that being said, I involve my partner to the limit of their skills base and do my best to educate them above and beyond wherever they're at. Me likey teachey.

I also expect my partner, Basic or Medic, to be competent at their level of training. If I need you to backboard a patient and you don't know how, or are unable to perform competently, we are going to have words. Want to call that a "god complex"? No, its professionalism and expecting the same in return. What would you think if I wasn't unable to run that code, start that I.V., or figure out why the pt. was having trouble breathing?

And to whoever was complaining about being a "goffer"...I'm guessing you were aiming at "gopher" "go 'fer" or "go for", that is part of your responsibility on scene, much like a 1st Asst to a Surgeon has a job, I consider my Basics MY 1st Asst.

 

[KillTank]

How do you and your squad deal with medics who think they are flawless and nothing BLS does is good enough?

Good ole Paragod syndrome.

This cannot be cured. Once and Ego develops it cannot be shut down.

This is how I handle...

Show respect, If they don't show it back then proceed to be a ****.

I grew up with the mentality of showing respecting to gain it. I refuse to kiss anyone's butt though. Respect, but show no fear. Know your skills and always be ready to learn. You will never gain any respect jumping in a box and pretending you know everything. Tell your partner you want to learn and I am sure they will be more than happy to teach you. One day you will earn that trust with them and the paragod syndrome will calm. I never had a problem with a paramedic. You gotta let em know respect runs 2 ways but If you are a rookie then you just gotta take the crap as it comes, we all have. ^_^

 

[VirginiaEMT]

How do you and your squad deal with medics who think they are flawless and nothing BLS does is good enough?

You do that by running with them and gaining their trust that you can perform the tasks that they ask of you, like an expert BLS provider.

It feels really good when the medics say that they like running with you because they trust you and your skills.

 

[Trip]

How do you and your squad deal with medics who think they are flawless and nothing BLS does is good enough?

Ok, I have a story I have to share. I work for a company that is staffed with every NYS level (except EMT-I, don't know why...) and hires quite a bit due to demand for IFTs. We hired a Paragod (not my usual term for paramedics, so don't get your panties in a bunch, lol) who decided to get into it with an EMT-D that is usually too bull-headed to back off. In this case, he was in the right (and I hate it when I agree with him...) as the Paragod pretty much stated that EMT-D's (Basics) serve no other purpose than to drive the ambulance. He completely forgot that we handle the ABCs so they can handle the more knowledge-intense stuff (i.e. meds, cardiac care, IVs, etc... and it's not that I think Paramedics can't do ABCs, I just believe they have so much more going on for pt care that some of the other things may be inadvertantly overlooked.)

What this Paragod overlooked was that he was the only ALS in the area with 7 EMT-Ds at the table. There was an uprising and he darn near pooped himself.

Anecdote (sp?) aside, I remind them there is no ALS without BLS. ABCs come first. If that doesn't work, we escalate to the higher ups or just put him in his place. Most AEMT-CCs back us on this as well as most of the AEMT-Ps and ORMs. Diplomacy first, try to walk away, if all else fails, let them have it.

 

[JPINFV]

ABCs come first. If that doesn't work, we escalate to the higher ups or just put him in his place.

...which, of course, when deranged often requires paramedic level interventions. After all, your AED doesn't work on someone who's unstable in SVT or in a 3rd degree AV block.

Being a paragod is just as stupid as the "ABCs, hence BLS, comes first" spiel used by EMTs.

 

[clibb]

My medics let me deal with all of the BLS calls and let me assist with their ALS calls. I have never run into trouble where they have argued with me on scene or afterwards. I like their feedback though, since I don't have too, much experience. I usually tell them to give me a lot of feedback, otherwise I wouldn't learn.

 

[Trip]

...which, of course, when deranged often requires paramedic level interventions. After all, your AED doesn't work on someone who's unstable in SVT or in a 3rd degree AV block.

Being a paragod is just as stupid as the "ABCs, hence BLS, comes first" spiel used by EMTs.

I think there was a miscommunication. First, there is no ALS without BLS. The ABCs come first was part of that statement.

The escalate was referring to if the Paragod keeps the attitude, take it to the boss, not regarding when to call for ALS.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[rhan101277]

Good ole Paragod syndrome.

This cannot be cured. Once and Ego develops it cannot be shut down.

This is how I handle...

Show respect, If they don't show it back then proceed to be a ****.

I grew up with the mentality of showing respecting to gain it. I refuse to kiss anyone's butt though. Respect, but show no fear. Know your skills and always be ready to learn. You will never gain any respect jumping in a box and pretending you know everything. Tell your partner you want to learn and I am sure they will be more than happy to teach you. One day you will earn that trust with them and the paragod syndrome will calm. I never had a problem with a paramedic. You gotta let em know respect runs 2 ways but If you are a rookie then you just gotta take the crap as it comes, we all have. ^_^

I personally would just kill them with kindness and try to work it out. If they continue to be a bad partner, then just let your supervisor know. No since then you getting grumpy back with them.

 

[Veneficus]

First, there is no ALS without BLS.

Why do people say this at all?

It has very little relation to reality.

 

[JPINFV]

I think there was a miscommunication. First, there is no ALS without BLS. The ABCs come first was part of that statement.

The escalate was referring to if the Paragod keeps the attitude, take it to the boss, not regarding when to call for ALS.

Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, ABCs comes first. I get that. What, exactly, do you plan on doing with a patient in 3rd degree AV block? This, of course, would fall under the "C" of "ABCs."

 

[usalsfyre]

There is no medical care without, well, medical care is closer to reality.

 

[alphatrauma]

there is no ALS without BLS

Why do people say this at all?

It has very little relation to reality.

Was having this discussion the other day... perhaps it is for the sake of morale :glare:

 

[Trip]

Ok, ABCs comes first. I get that. What, exactly, do you plan on doing with a patient in 3rd degree AV block? This, of course, would fall under the "C" of "ABCs."

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. Again, I am not questioning when to call for ALS as an AED can not be used to pace, as well as setting an SCT or LifePak to pace a pt is outside of the scope of a basic, at least here it is. Chest compressions until ALS arrives, is within my scope. No airway? No pt. No breathing? No pt. No Circulation? No pt. I can't do anything within my scope of practice to pace a pt other than chest compressions. THIS was never in question. If I had a pt in 3rd degree AV block, I wouldn't have the gear on my rig to determine that. I would however be able to determine the blood is not Circulating properly and do what I was trained to do until ALS arrives. No question, CC or Paramedic necessary.

And the ALS without BLS goes to that every medic at any level has to verify/monitor/maintain airway, breathing and circulation, not just ALS providers, but Basics as well. The difference comes as to what steps each level can perform. It's not just a morale thing.

The issue, to say it again, was not when to escalate a pt from BLS to ALS, but when to tell the boss that the Paragod was too big for his britches when it comes to snubbing EMT-Ds. We are their support, not just there to drive the ambulance and take their abuse.

 

[JPINFV]

The issue, to say it again, was not when to escalate a pt from BLS to ALS, but when to tell the boss that the Paragod was too big for his britches when it comes to snubbing EMT-Ds. We are their support, not just there to drive the ambulance and take their abuse.

See, I have a few problems.

What's wrong with driving? It seems to be an integral part of EMS. It's like CNAs complaining about wiping butt. You know what, if I have a family member in the hospital or (starting in June) when my patients are in the hospital, someone wiping their butt tends to be extremely important. In fact, life saving important. It might not be savory, but, be it butt wiping or ambulance driving, it's exceedingly important. A better tactic would be owning it. "Yea, one of the things I do is drive, but it's better than crashing into your family on a transport." The only reason why it has power in the first place is because you give it power as a negative.

However, the paragod tends to be constantly pared up with EMT-Hero, and both are exceedingly stupid. You're an EMT. Outside of patient packaging and driving, there really isn't much you can do in a patient that doesn't "need" a paramedic. CPR? Needs a paramedic on the off chance of ROSC. Outside of that, it just needs someone who can push fast on the chest and run an idiot box (on a side note, I'd love it if someone made an AED for EMS that didn't include voice instructions). Neither of those are restricted acts, as can be seen by public access defibrillators. The vast majority of what EMTs do are rather simplistic, over used, or not really effective. Normally a combination of at least 2 of those. Saying "Yea, we're better than driving" is like a McDonalds employee complaining that Gordon Ramsay isn't giving him respect because their both "chefs."

The unfortunate fact is that, given the limited scope of practice,the most important job an EMT does is drive, regardless of EMT/EMT or EMT/Paramedic crewing as that's the one thing that EMTs do that can kill the patient if done incorrectly. The problem with paragods is that they tend to shove the EMT's face in it, which is completely unnecessary the vast vast majority of the time.

 

[Trip]

See, I have a few problems.
The unfortunate fact is that, given the limited scope of practice,the most important job an EMT does is drive, regardless of EMT/EMT or EMT/Paramedic crewing as that's the one thing that EMTs do that can kill the patient if done incorrectly. The problem with paragods is that they tend to shove the EMT's face in it, which is completely unnecessary the vast vast majority of the time.

There's nothing wrong with driving. But not all rigs are EMT/EMT or EMT/Paramedic. My fire department, as with many, are BLS level. The drivers tend not to be EMTs and are often not even CPR/AED trained. No epi, no aspirin, not even O2 without an EMT-D or higher telling them to. Using your reasoning, anyone can drive an ambulance.

I'm out. Think what you will. The issue was Paragod syndrome, not ALS vs BLS.

 

[usafmedic45]

The drivers tend not to be EMTs and are often not even CPR/AED trained.

In a lot of states, that's illegal although I see no inherent problem with it so long as you run a three person crew.

The issue was Paragod syndrome, not ALS vs BLS.

Unfortunately those two are inexorably tied.

There's nothing wrong with driving.

I think you completely misunderstood what he was trying to say.