Lightbars in personal vehicles?

[Raf]

In massachusetts only police are allowed to have blue. Other firstresponders like EMS and FF's can use almost any other color.

 

[disassociative]

That's so strange to me; I guess we are the oddity though. None of our emergency services other than Law Enforcement are allowed to use blue
lights.

All of our vehicles, ambulances, firetrucks, response vehicles use Red Lights.


Do any of your states require an "Emergency", "FireFighter", or "Govt Service"
tag to be on the vehicle to use a lightbar?

 

[Ridryder911]

Have lights or star of life on you p.o.v =whacker.. period. You don't see trauma surgeons with lights on their Lexus or Mercedes..

R/r 911

 

[disassociative]

Trauma surgeons might not, but I think that anyone working with a Volunteer Fire Dept should.

 

[Ridryder911]

Why?.. How can one justify it if one obeys the speed limit, and all the driving laws, and does not produce a hazard to themselves or others? This will save ...time?.. There has been numerous studies, that has shown it has not saved significant time, especially in a metro area. However, it does increase risk to others and to themselves.

Generally, lightbars, decals are considered to be very much an unprofessional site. Again, in comparison, does one think that their response would be more valuable than the surgeons?... As well, I don't see caduceus's and surgeon decals on their vehicle...

Fortunately, my state does not allow volunteer(s) to have or represent emergency vehicle status. There are more and more increasing incidences of emergency vehicles, injuring and killing people daily. Increasing risks need to be weighed heavily...

R/r 911

 

[disassociative]

I think even with a light you should obey the speed limit. My justification is that
when someone sees a siren coming; they are inclined to pull over to the side and let the vehicle pass.

Please note that I am speaking mainly of First Responders in rural areas.

Even ambulance driver's are told to obey the speed limits. According to the dept of transportation
90% of patients survive with an arrival time under 1 hr. I do not agree with unsafe driving in any manner, be it speeding, running redlights, etc..

 

[Jon]

On my "old" car - I had a 3" PA EMT decal, a 3" 9/11 memorial decal on my back windshield, a Squad front license plate, and a "EMS" PA state license plate. I'm not sure if I'll put 1 or 2 of the decals on my new car.

Blue Lights (Courtesy lights in PA) are good for when you respond direct and have to "park" your vehicle somewhere it shouldn't be "parked" - like the side of a highway, or on the side of the road.... I know of several folks who don't use the lights to respond, but turn them on onscene.

I'm not a big fan of speeding with a blue light.. the general consensus around here is that you can get away with more by just "driving like an a**hole" than you can with lights... because if you use lights, someone is going to call your chief to complain about that "maniac fireman"

 

[FFEMT1764]

Why?.. How can one justify it if one obeys the speed limit, and all the driving laws, and does not produce a hazard to themselves or others? This will save ...time?..

I certainly hope you dont live in an area that is covered by an all volunteer fire dept...as your house WILL burn ot the ground, possibly with YOU in it if you dont allow your local volly FF to run his red lights and siren to the FD to get that all important piece of firefighting equipment we all refer to as the BRT...I am fully in favor a vollies having and using red lights to go get the BRT, and as warranted to go directly to the fire...but hey I also dont want my home to burn to the ground.

As a side note, here in SC if you meet the requirements of Title 12 (360 degree warning and 100 watts siren at 10 feet)while in your POV you are classisfied as an emergency vehicle and are allowed to exceed the speed limit by up to 15 MPH over hte posted limit and, using due regard for safety of everyone, disregard traffic control devices just as if you were in the ambulance, BRT, or police car.

 

[Ridryder911]

Actually I do live in a volunteer area. I was even a Fire Chief for over 10 years at a local F.D. As a Chief I helped propose legislation to prevent yahoo's from running hot in p.o.v's. After several months of research and studies, it has been proven there was not any difference in response times, if one was actually driving safely and obeying laws.

Look at the statistics of emergency vehicle crashes, and these are usually large vehicle with proper markings, appropriate siren, and lighted devices and hopefully with trained EVOC drivers. Sorry, if one firefighter or an innocent citizen gets killed, the stakes are too high.

I doubt that extra 5 minutes, would had prevented a structure fire to go to full extent. If the fire is that engaged, time is gone. Proper firefighting strategies, stream and interior attack and ventilation is far more important than going 15 mph over the speed limit. As far as anyone disregards the traffic signals, I will be happy to testify against them. This would be considered disregard to safety to public, and property. I know several EVOC and public safety instructors, that would gladly testify.

I guess this is one of those agree to disagree....

Be safe,
R/r911

R/r 911

 

[disassociative]

he he. I respect your style and your experience RidRyder911. For the record;
our chief would have our @** if we were caught doing 90 mph to a scene, lol.


I think it really falls under Scene Safety in a way; an injured responder is not
only unable to treat anyone, but is also a liability unto the other medical personell.

 

[FFEMT1764]

Yes this does fall under the agree to disagree column. I agree that 90 mph is too fast, period. however 65 in a 50 is not too fast, especially since most roads around here were made in the 60's and 70's and had to fall in line with the Eisenhower interstate plan, plus the DOT builds roads for 20 mph more than they post on the speed limit signs, and supposedly the DOT is a safety minded state entity.

Of course everyone is not going to see eye to eye on this, and as long as our state and our department allows us to use lights and sirens I will continue to do so.

 

[KEVD18]

in ma, a permit requested by the chief of the dept and issued by the registrar is required for blue and red lights. blue for the cops and red for fire/ems

i use my pov for a multitude of things, including responding to scenes or the station for coverage. therefore, it is lit in an effective but not overly done way.

 

[gradygirl]

I don't believe we have any need for light bars in private EMT vehicles as most of our services require employees, even vollies, to stay in some sort of base area. The only lights I've seen on private vehicles are in volley fire vehicles. But even then, one can only have blue and white lights. Red lights are only for the chiefs' vehicles.

For our campus squad, however, there is a bit of difference. We don't really have a vehicle (well, we do, sort of, but it's been offline and won't be going online any time soon), so we use personal vehicles or LEOs vehicles to respond across campus. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some sort of light combos on personal vehicles soon.


The First Law of Ambulance Driving:

No matter how fast you drive the Ambulance when responding to a call, it will never be fast enough, unless you pass a Police Cruiser, at which point it will be entirely too fast.

 

[Ridryder911]

Cute saying, but truthfully the law is that it is always the emergency vehicle operators fault. The operator is to maintain and control of the vehicle at all times in regard to property and safety to others. In other words, if you are involved in a crash (noticed I did state accident, since there is no such thing) it is the EVOC fault.

My state, emergency driving law does not have a set speed limit, but recognizes, that the EVOC is the professional, and by doing so assumes the risk. Hence is automatically guilty, if there is such an occurrence.

R/r 911

 

[FFEMT1764]

The law here isnt the same as it is there, here it is up to the officer to decide who was at fault, if they determine the EV was using due regard and was being as cautious as possible given they are responding to an emergency, then they can, and usually do, cite the driver of the other vehicle for either/and driving to fast for conditions, failure to yeild to an emergency vehicle(automatic 6 pts and $750 here), and if they can find more violations after that then things go up from there...I have been in 2 wrecks in an ambulance running code 3 and BOTH times the other driver was charged with the wreck and cited for one of the above mentioned violations, or both as in the one case when the moron thought they should try to outrun the ambulance that just past them...which leads me to the intelligence of the common person, which is a debate for another time.

 

[HFD EMS]

I am A Volunteer EMT First Responder and i keep my Jump bag and equipment in my truck. I dont have a siren, however, i do have a blue strobe light that is attached to my dash. I arrive before the ambulance and usually can give a brief pt asessment before the ambulance even gets on scene. No i dont agree with breaking the laws however in my area when people see a flashing blue light they know to slow down and pull over over and allow the vehicle to pass safely and quickly. I honestly dont remember when the last time we have had trouble with a MFR going to a scene and having a wreck on the way there. I think that they are very efficent and are a nice tool to get to the scene quick and SAFELY! My insurance co. has given me no problems because of that as well.

 

[Flight-LP]

Yes this does fall under the agree to disagree column. I agree that 90 mph is too fast, period. however 65 in a 50 is not too fast, especially since most roads around here were made in the 60's and 70's and had to fall in line with the Eisenhower interstate plan, plus the DOT builds roads for 20 mph more than they post on the speed limit signs, and supposedly the DOT is a safety minded state entity.

Of course everyone is not going to see eye to eye on this, and as long as our state and our department allows us to use lights and sirens I will continue to do so.

I'd love to see how far that one gets you in court! 65 in a 50 is too fast. That equation is the same as saying its o.k. to do 35 in a 20..........What if that 20 is in a school zone? Bottom line, do the limit maybe 5 over it with extreme due regard. But honestly, I have traveled all over this island we call North America and have yet to see a majority of woo-woo wackers actually be responsible behind the wheel with a "gall's special" light package. Oh and by the way, I can tell you as an experienced medical - legal consultant that neither ALLstate nor State Farm will back you in the case of an injury accident regardless of fault. Your local agent can blow smoke up your *** all day long, but in the end, they will turn their back. Perhaps more people need to think twice about having a true need or lack of..............

 

[FFEMT1764]

neither ALLstate nor State Farm will back you in the case of an injury accident regardless of fault. Your local agent can blow smoke up your *** all day long, but in the end, they will turn their back.

Actually in SC they have to back you, the general assembly made it a state law, to protect volunteers from just this particular thing.

 

[gradygirl]

I'd love to see how far that one gets you in court! 65 in a 50 is too fast. That equation is the same as saying its o.k. to do 35 in a 20..........

Ok, so the speed ratio is the same, but from a typical driver's standpoint, these two scenarios are very different. Please tell me that most of us here does not do at least 65+ on the highway. In Atlanta, the speed limits on highways is typically 55. Yet, going 75, you will still be passed by almost every single other driver, especially on large highways. In fact, some students from one of the state colleges did an experiment on traffic patterns in Atlanta by going the 55 speed limit, which actually caused other drivers take serious risks and caused a huge uproar. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5366552067462745475. So is going 65 in a 50 zone a huge issue? I think it depends greatly on the city, the highway itself, etc., etc.

We had a huge debate in our EMT class about a year ago on how fast we could drive, in this case, an ambulance. A girl insisted that we should be able to have an unlimited speed limit and that we shouldn't ever have to worry about being stopped by LEOs. Our instructor argued with her that unless she had gone to countless driving schools and had multiple licenses, there is no way she should ever think about driving a 9+ ton vehicle at an unlimited rate of speed and that yes, LEOs could pull her over if she tried to do so. And, with the whole crashes involving EVs, none of the crashes I have been told about by friends involved in them have been cited as being the driver's fault. Every single crash was caused by some moron trying to outrun an EV and either the EMT trying to stop and not being able to, or the other party t-boning the ambulance.

 

[Ridryder911]

Need proof about EMS crashes?... http://www.emsnetwork.org/ambulance_crashes_2002.htm.. Might want to read, the outcome and later on the law suit verdicts. Again, everyone is taught that L&S only asks for right away, and that emergency vehicles is NEVER excused from the normal safety ordinances. This is taught in all EVOC courses, litretature.

I think most of you will be shocked, that the EMS will always be sued, and most likely will loose. Drivers are supposed to be able to be in control vehicle at all times, with regards of safety to public and property in a safe and operating manner.

R/r 911