Legal question, I was dispatched to transport 2 PT's!!!!!

[EMT11KDL]

No, it's not "OK," but in non-ideal situations the reality is you do what needs to be done. However, if there is a way to avoid multiple pt. transport, I think it should be avoided. If you're in the sticks with no other ambulances, then you may be stuck.

There is a possible justification for being a bit more risk tolerant during a single emergent situation....not so much for a systematic allowance of exposure risk simply to get grandma nunu and papa jack to the doctors without taking more than one crew out of service for dialysis runs.

Personally I'd much much rather see us go to forward facing crew seats with only room for one patient, but that's not reality in most places.

if both patients are stable, or one of the patients is stable and does not need your attention that often but the other patient does. Why take another rig Out of Service to take the stable patient? Can you not handle two patients in the back by yourself? If you have two critical patients I can understand not transporting 2 if your working IFT.


I know working 911, sometimes we use firefighters as drivers or a firefighter in the back.

Question about IFT: Why not call your supervisor or another coworker and have them meet you at the hospital so there is two in the back with the patients? Is that even possible?

I have never worked IFT. I have only worked 911, so maybe my thought process is different because of that fact.

 

[brentoli]

So me and my partner find any reason not to take both. We took one(tachycardic, HTN, hot to the touch, and vomited earlier that day) and advised dispatch to send another crew for the wife(we waited till the crew got there).

The OP lost alot of credibility in my book with that statement. Is there anything in your company policy/protocols/state law saying you cant take 2 pts at a time? If not I am convinced you did a disservice to your patients.

1. Husband and Wife
2. Wants to go together
3. Not feeling well

The ambulance is a traumatic experience anyways, what was the harm in keeping them together?

 

[EMSLaw]

In an ideal world, I would transport two patients in two ambulances. This world seldom being ideal, there's no reason an ambulance can't transport two. I don't know how your rig is set up, but all our ambulances are set up to accomidate that - you can attach the folding stretcher to the bench seat, there is a second Oxygen "christmas tree", and you carry at least two of almost everything. Yeah, treating the patient on the bench seat if they're on a stretcher is a bit of a pain, but it's not unmanagable.

Just not seeing this as such a big deal.

 

[jrm818]

if both patients are stable, or one of the patients is stable and does not need your attention that often but the other patient does. Why take another rig Out of Service to take the stable patient? Can you not handle two patients in the back by yourself? If you have two critical patients I can understand not transporting 2 if your working IFT.


I know working 911, sometimes we use firefighters as drivers or a firefighter in the back.

Question about IFT: Why not call your supervisor or another coworker and have them meet you at the hospital so there is two in the back with the patients? Is that even possible?

I have never worked IFT. I have only worked 911, so maybe my thought process is different because of that fact.

My problem isn't taking care of more than one patient at once. My objection is that lying a second patient on the bench means that you as the provider now have no possibility of being restrained unless you have inspector gadget arms and can reach both patients from a belted position in the airway seat.

 

[abckidsmom]

My problem isn't taking care of more than one patient at once. My objection is that lying a second patient on the bench means that you as the provider now have no possibility of being restrained unless you have inspector gadget arms and can reach both patients from a belted position in the airway seat.

How long is the transport? What do you REALLY need to do for them on the way? This sounds a lot like a transport where I'd sit in the captain's chair, write the paperwork and be present but not doing much for the patients.

This would be no big deal in any system I've worked in, and I could easily see doing this transport any time. It's using resources wisely, IMO.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Perfectly, 100% legal to take more than one patient. They don't even have to be related.


Each box ambulance I've ever seen is built to hold 2 backboarded patients.




How else do you think MCIs are handled, especially in rural areas?

Exactly. We transport two pts all the time. We will do this on MCIs, IFTs, etc. We are actually set up to carry three backboards "comfortably" and four if we really cram.

I have personally taken two pts both from the scene and from hospital to hospital. We will sometimes get paged to take a pt from the local hospital to a lvl II in the city and the hospital will have two that need to go when we get there. So we load them both up.

Another time we went to a fall. This elderly lady had fallen down two stairs and broken a wrist or something. We we are assessing her when she tells us that her husband tried to catch her as she fell, and he fell as well, dislocation his artificial knee. So we ended up taking both.

Yea, two, three even four pts is 100% legal. As long as you don't distribute each pts SSN to the other three.

 

[EMSrush]

I've transported 4 pts during an MCI... wasn't a huge deal. We can get into legalities and technicalities all day long, but in the end, I think it has a lot to do with the comfort level of the provider.

 

[Veneficus]

The discrepency may not be with transporting multiple patients, but with billing multiple patients.

An MCI or multicasualty motor vehicle incident is a very different realm than IFT as far as billing may be concerned.

Especially the "medical need" if one can sit on a bench seat. I can't imagine that anyone put a patient on a cot, trnsfered them to a bench then loaded the other on a cot, went to the hospital and reversed the process.

However, if the facility is being billed under contract, that might be a different story. There could also be an issue if the patient contests being transported with another in a nonemergent manner.

One more reason it is better to work at McDs than in IFT. There are very few reputable IFT companies.

 

[johnrsemt]

Epi; I think you and I transported 2 once; both were stable, but had a great chance to destabilize in a hurry.
Mother and pre mature newborn. Mom had large hole in diaphragm and newborn was about 6 weeks early.

maybe it wasn't you.

Transport 2 quite often; ended up having one help bag another on a long distance transfer, when one crashed.

 

[johnrsemt]

in fact I transported 2 about 2 years ago, when we had 6 other trucks available, but they were both stable knee injuries. it was about 2 hour transport.

like previous posters said: bad Idea to take both drivers from 2 car MVA's; but I have taken up to 6 people from a ECF evacuation; and 4 from a MVA, (3 were backboarded).

 

[firetender]

Being asked to do a routine transport of two related patients exhibiting zero cause for concerns during the time it takes you to get from "A" to "B" tells me more about your inadequacy as a medic than anything else.

I'd expect you will be watched closely for a while because in the eyes of the company, that would likely be considered major lazy on your part. That's how it reads to me, and you're making the added mistake of showing your choice is based on your own insecurities, NOT the actual call.

As your employer, I would also register your distrust, seeking legal justification for NOT doing your work for them without considering it's highly probably that the family will get a $ break

And no one (of 14 posters!) except brentoli (GOOD ON YA!) mentioned the emotional/psychological benefits of keeping the husband and wife TOGETHER during what could be a period of traumatic separation/transition. THAT is a part of looking out for the patient's welfare that the rest of you didn't even considered.

Regardless, OP, here you see reflected a good 10 "holes" in your bucket that need patching before you can even be good at IFT. If you don't think getting good at that is worthwhile, then you're in the wrong business because you can't even see what's in front of you, only your fears and resentment.

 

[JPINFV]

And no one (of 14 posters!) except brentoli (GOOD ON YA!) mentioned the emotional/psychological benefits of keeping the husband and wife TOGETHER during what could be a period of traumatic separation/transition. THAT is a part of looking out for the patient's welfare that the rest of you didn't even considered.

There's been more than one person who's implied that there's benefits in transporting patients with family.
http://emtlife.com/showpost.php?p=263189&postcount=24

 

[Epi-do]

Epi; I think you and I transported 2 once; both were stable, but had a great chance to destabilize in a hurry.
Mother and pre mature newborn. Mom had large hole in diaphragm and newborn was about 6 weeks early.

maybe it wasn't you.

Transport 2 quite often; ended up having one help bag another on a long distance transfer, when one crashed.

I don't think that was me. I would think I would remember a run with patients like that.

 

[brentoli]

There's been more than one person who's implied that there's benefits in transporting patients with family.
http://emtlife.com/showpost.php?p=263189&postcount=24

Get outa here and let me bask for a little bit.

 

[Aidey]

I can't imagine that anyone put a patient on a cot, trnsfered them to a bench then loaded the other on a cot, went to the hospital and reversed the process.

*Raises hand*

Done that.

 

[medic417]

*Raises hand*

Done that.

Many times and with more than just 2 patients on many occasions.

 

[Veneficus]

Many times and with more than just 2 patients on many occasions.

on IFT?

 

[str8lacelaci]

We transport two patient when its needed, but the two patient have to have be at the same place...we just cant stop pick up patient one up and then drive a little while and pick up patient two

 

[Akulahawk]

*Raises hand*

Done that.

As have I. Once on an IFT. Both patients going from the same place to the same place. Once. I've done that several times on scene calls. Those are usually different animals.

 

[Veneficus]

I have done up to 5 patients on a scene call, but never more than one in IFT.