Ked

[Lola99]

This came up in conversation last night. When covering KED in class, we were repeatedly told it's almost never used around here and that we probably wouldn't in the field. In extrication, we didn't. Just backboards and hold c-spine.
I've heard some places use them religiously.
How does that go in your area and why? Were you taught the same?

 

[MrBrown]

We threw away longboards years ago .... KED/collar and scoop only

 

[TransportJockey]

I use one whenever I can. And also for things like as a hop splint too. I gate long spine boards.

 

[Veneficus]

This came up in conversation last night. When covering KED in class, we were repeatedly told it's almost never used around here and that we probably wouldn't in the field. In extrication, we didn't. Just backboards and hold c-spine.
I've heard some places use them religiously.
How does that go in your area and why? Were you taught the same?

used a ked only 5 times in my entire career. Infact, I can remember all of them.

1st to get somebody out of a rollercoaster car that had no way to get a spineboard anywhere close.

2nd. When a VFD felt it was important that they cut a victim out of the drivers side despite unrestricted access to the passenger side. (basically they needed to play with their toys since all it did was prolong the extrication.) She was completely stable, but I figured some precaution probably should be taken for the event. (apparently the fact that I had cut more people out of cars than that whole VFD probably ever did had no influence on voted in officers decisions)

3. For a lady who was actually on the phone with her lawyer when we got there, sitting in a car that another car bumper tapped at idle while stopped at a light.

4. As a splint for a broken hip, before I figured out there were easier and less painful methods.

5. As a long board for a kid because we used all of ours in an MCI.

 

[MrBrown]

Do not get KED and AED mixed up, man that ended badly for Brown!

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Do not get KED and AED mixed up, man that ended badly for Brown!

Wow you are right!!!

We actually use them fairly often. They are falling out of favor though. They just take so darn long to put on properly. A fair portion of our MVA pts are "unstable" anyhow, so it is ruled out right there.

Brown, did y'all seriously do away with LSBs?

 

[MedJPavlo]

Like i said in our conversation, I have never used a KED. We always let fire pull them out holding cspine then transfer to a backboard

 

[Lola99]

Like i said in our conversation, I have never used a KED. We always let fire pull them out holding cspine then transfer to a backboard

Lol. We already talked about this. I don't think you count, but for the sake of the conversation here in the thread... Haha.

 

[MrBrown]

Brown, did y'all seriously do away with LSBs?

Yes, you will not find a long spine board on our ambulances ... Brown did once and upon investigation was told it was "for show"

 

[EMSLaw]

We actually use them fairly often. They are falling out of favor though. They just take so darn long to put on properly. A fair portion of our MVA pts are "unstable" anyhow, so it is ruled out right there.

The "book" says that you're supposed to be able to apply a KED in less than 10 minutes.

The "book" fails to realize that 10 minutes is easy with plenty of space in an EMT class, and not so easy in the front seat of a crumpled up car when it's 40 and raining. And you haven't used the blasted thing in nine months.

I think I've used it twice in the last year. Protocol requires it on all stable, seated patients who require c-spine precautions. That protocol was apparently omitted from many people's copies, because it rarely seems to happen. Also, for MVAs, either the patient is generally out of the car when we arrive, or so bad off that they need rapid extrication.

 

[clibb]

Ha a patient with a broken L2 (found out after). She was in incredible pain when we just moved her a little bit to get her to the back board. So we put a KED on and then moved her. She didn't feel any pain when we did that. I love the KED, back boards will be out of commission soon.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

The "book" says that you're supposed to be able to apply a KED in less than 10 minutes.

Yea, the book also says (and my MPD agrees) that I am supposed to be rolling towards the hospital or LZ within 10 minutes of calling on scene when I have a critical trauma pt. If I spend 10 minutes putting on a KED in the vehicle, well, I guess I have to be able to drive faster than the speed of light so that time will go backward.

 

[spike91]

I personally love the KED. Not difficult at all and I feel like you get a better packaging that way as compared to a long board.

 

[reaper]

The KED should take no more then 5 minutes to apply. It is a great device and should be used often.

Had a medic at another service that was just to lazy to use it. He was called to court in a personal injury case and was ripped apart by the lawyer. A KED is in the standards and if you do not use it, you better be able explain why!

I make new basics use it on every MVC they are on, so they can get used to applying it, in a safe, fast manner.

Don't get me wrong. I do not use it on all pts. But if there is a call for it, you better use it. They are there to be used. I would rather use a KED and dump the LSB.

 

[Veneficus]

Protocol requires it on all stable, seated patients who require c-spine precautions..

I think stable and c-spine are mutually exclusive statements.

Surely a force that can injure a spine has injured everything else along the way to one of the most protected structures in the body?

Incidentally, if there is inflammation of the compartments around the spine, pressure from any device will actually run a significant risk of occluding the spinal o2 supply faster.

Just saying.

 

[MrBrown]

... I am supposed to be rolling towards the hospital or LZ within 10 minutes of calling on scene when I have a critical trauma pt. ...

Not to worry Lights, Brown is coming!

Looks good Oz, clear to ground, Ambulance two o'clock low, no lines
Ambulance, Medivac descending ...

Yes hello Dr Brown here, one of the helicopter medical doctors, say, what is all this white stuff on the ground?

 

[Fox800]

We don't carry KED's at any of the busier, more legit places I've worked. The only place I worked that had one was a small, one-ambulance collegiate ALS service. Never saw it used.

 

[Bosco836]

This came up in conversation last night. When covering KED in class, we were repeatedly told it's almost never used around here and that we probably wouldn't in the field. In extrication, we didn't. Just backboards and hold c-spine.
I've heard some places use them religiously.
How does that go in your area and why? Were you taught the same?

They seem to be used a fair bit around here, especially with MVC's with patients requiring C-Spine Control. Although they may be a pain, it has been my experience that they tend to be a very effective tool for helping to immobilize a patient who is still sitting in his or her vehicle (and arguably, provides better spinal immobilization during extraction than attempting to hold c-spine and slide the pt. onto the backboard).

 

[C.T.E.M.R.]

were being told to really start using them or be able to explain why we didn't.

 

[AnthonyM83]

If a lawsuit happens be ready to explain why it wasn't used as the EMS textbooks they'll use to judge you will indicate KED should have been used (unless your protocols protect you).

And if you use it often shouldn't normally take even 3 to 4 min. Many exceptions like tight cars and bulky clothes. But it shouldn't generally be used on critical patients, anyway. But for the critical patients yes 10 min is the goal from arrival to departure...many times that won't be possible but many many times it will if everyone works at a good pace as if the patient's life might depend on that time factor...cause it might.