IV Question

[TheDoll]

this might sound strange, but here goes...
i have a friend who has ms, and is going to have to have iv's started on her regularly. i don't know all of the details, but apparently, the hospital wants her husband (with no medical background whatsoever) to learn how to start them on her. he is completely freaked out about this btw. do any of you know people who have at home iv's that someone other than a medical professional starts? i have never heard of anything like this, but i have barely any experience. anyway, i hate the idea of him having to learn on his wifes veins, as they are both totally new to this and both scared. so, i offered to let him learn on my veins. anyway, i'm wondering if any of you have ever heard of anything along these lines (heh--no pun intended)?

 

[MMiz]

I don't see what's so bad about it. It's not like it's the hardest skill in the world if you're doing it at home.

A course at a community college is going to be less than 10 credits, and practical experience is usually only 10 or so shifts.

Maybe others can offer some better advice

 

[TheDoll]

cool, i told her i didn't think that it would be a big deal once he started learning how to do it. are there any risks involved for me? i don't mind a little pain, but could i get seriously injured?

 

[MMiz]

cool, i told her i didn't think that it would be a big deal once he started learning how to do it. are there any risks involved for me? i don't mind a little pain, but could i get seriously injured?

They shouldn't be giving some person a stock of IVs with the simple instructions to practice. There is actual book knowledge and even trainers out there.

You can be seriously injured, though like most things in life the chances are small. Infection and pain would be my biggest concern... and going to work looking like a user

 

[Ridryder911]

I wonder why they want I.V. infusion therapy, usually they will try to get home care therapy for that. Although, it might be suggested and yes, family members can learn proper techniques (we teach EMT's, don;t we?...LOL) ..

More importantly is why is the I.V. being established for fluids, med.'s.. ? Some will perform at home antibiotic therapy, but after a good flush and monitor for signs of infiltration and infection, an IV can be left in place for 2-3 days (dependent on how caustic the med) and again if this is such, a nurse should be performing infusion therapy.

R/r 911

 

[TheDoll]

thanks so much for the responses. no, i would not let someone stick me without being in a medical environment. we would be at the hospital with a nurse instructing him. as i said before, i have few details, but i do know that this is a family with very little medical coverage. so, having a nurse always start the iv's is something that is becomming very expensive for them. as i learn more i will fill you all in.
i've just never heard of a family member needing to start iv's. however, as i previously stated, i'm very inexperienced in this field.

 

[Guardian]

There is something strange about this, IV is an invasive procedure and shouldn't be done by family at home. What medical reason short of home health care could this person have for IV therapy? None I can think of...

 

[TheDoll]

There is something strange about this, IV is an invasive procedure and shouldn't be done by family at home. What medical reason short of home health care could this person have for IV therapy? None I can think of...

THAT is exactly what sounded weird/fishy to me. however, since i'm so inexperienced in this field, i just figured it was something i didn't know about. as we continue talking about this i will learn more about this. also, i'll update this thread.

 

[rescuecpt]

Have they discussed having a port implanted? It depends on what the IV's are for.

Also, IVs can usually be left in place for 3 or 4 days, have they considered having a home health aide type of person come change the IV every few days?

 

[Jon]

Ports were designed for regular need for venous access... sounds like a port might not be a bad idea.

 

[KEVD18]

yeah....why is this pt not having a port placed????? thats what they exist for, repeated veinous access.... discuss this option with the attending

 

[BloodNGlory02]

Like everyone else, im not sure why they would let Joe Blow start IVs on his wife. There are things like outpatient clinics and home care nurses for these reasons. Not sure the port would work with all MS medications. I just can't imagine being stuck Q3-4 days for new access though.

 

[TheDoll]

Like everyone else, im not sure why they would let Joe Blow start IVs on his wife. There are things like outpatient clinics and home care nurses for these reasons. Not sure the port would work with all MS medications. I just can't imagine being stuck Q3-4 days for new access though.

well, i think part of the issue might be that she doesn't have insurance. i know that it is expensive for her to go to the hospital every time she needs to have this done. however, keep in mind i think there are some details that i am not aware of.
thanks for all you your responses, everyone, btw! i appreciate any feedback!

 

[Flight-LP]

No IV nor port should be needed, MS meds can be given IM. The problem lies in the insurance issue, MS meds are VERY expensive! Rebiff and Copaxin are both over $500 / per month. The hospital more than likely is only offering pain meds. It is rare for an inpatient to receive MS meds unless that person is already on them. Which makes me raise an eyebrow as to why the IV access is needed (or possibly not needed).

Something is not right here, no hospital in their right mind would recommend a family member to perform this, they would instead refer the patient to a home health agency. There has to be more to this story...............

 

[TheDoll]

there is definately more to the story, as i have previously stated. i just don't know what it is:wacko: .
if she takes me up on my offer to help her any way that i can, then i'll learn more about what is going on, and i can share it with all of you. even though i think this sounds weird, i have definately heard of familiy members taking care of sick loved-one's at home, and performing things that normally would be taken care of with home health care. i'm not saying this doesn't sound strange, but i can't help but wonder how "far out" it really is--especially with healthcare being the way that it is.

 

[trauma1534]

Well, I happen to be of the opinion that anyone can learn any skill with the proper training. Yes, ofcourse there are risks as with any precedure done. One of the most scarry things that can happen is a peice if the IV cathater breaking off inside the vein and causing an embolism. This can happen if the cathater is not advanced proberly and gets torn somehow.

But, as far as him learning to stick his wife, no big deal. We teach people everyday to start IV's. What's wrong with it? Like I said, if properly taught, it's not a hard skill to master. Don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[Ridryder911]

Starting IV could be taught to a monkey.. (hey we teach EMT's everyday.. LOL) but the point is ... "Why should he?"... Before, long will we be teaching "How to perform your appendectomy" on DVD?.. It again, not the procedure, but why should a loved one have to?

Before, long why would the public even need medical care, if they can do it themselves. I feel we have lost the compassion and caring all together... I watched a video a couple of weeks ago, demonstrating an elderly man that was instructed to change dressings and perform wound care, antibiotic therapy on his frail, cancerous spouse.. that he was married to for over 60 years.. He could not "stomach" the mastectomy wounds, with purulent drainage or barely could see the syringe markings... and he got a whole day to learn this technique. As the Home Health Care RN described she could not even teach an experienced nurse, how was she to teach a laymen?

People deserve to be taken care of ... yes, they should be responsible for their care and assist in it. But, there needs to be a limit....

Not everyone is geared and able to stomach our business.. I know, there are many professions, I could not..

R/r 911

 

[trauma1534]

"Starting IV could be taught to a monkey.. (hey we teach EMT's everyday.. LOL)"

I'll tell you again, buddy, you are in the WRONG room! If you are so anti-EMT, then find a paragod site to join! These EMT's in here are trying to benifit from the discussions and learn something here. They don't need you constantly put them down. Go take up golf or something to take out your anger toward EMT's on, don't bring that crap in here where they are trying to have simple discussions. Just remember, "you are one patient away from not being a paramedic". You, too can mess up! Your attitude is dangerous!!!!

 

[Ridryder911]

Sorry, again it is apparent you cannot read the intent or reasoning behind my statement. Even you stated "anyone can be taught skills".. which is very true.

Sorry, I believe in education not training. Knowing why, how and all indications of treatment modalities prior to allowing someone to "start IV's" after a couple week class. Going to a couple night classes for a few weeks does not cut it. So many so called ALS providers having only attended a few nighttime classes and have no understanding of what, why, and side effects of what they are doing. I am sure you have seen and know many of these. Sorry, I prefer to leave training to animals and educating EMS personnel. Any time anyone establishes and starts IV fluids they are changing the osmolarity of the patients hemodynamics.

If you could understand the reason of my statement that we "train, rather than educate most EMT's, then you would know and understand the difference. Even Pedicurist that cuts and polish nails goes to school longer than most EMT's, much worse a beautician that cuts your hair goes to school longer than most Paramedic courses and yes, they usually pay more for their classes... this is outrageous!.

Yes, I am for EMS.. to upgrade, & to be better! But, we have to change the mentality of wanting to get things the easy way!!...Fast track EMT and even more horrible so-called shake and bake Paramedic programs.

I have no anger against EMT's.. just do not care to see those that claim to "save lives" .. with a few hundred hour class actually attempt denounce Paramedics?

I am not worried about being dangerous... I have seen many come and many go. I am very happy at EMS as well as my administrator, physician's and most important from the patient's (by the thank you cards I recieve) they are quite satisfied with my professional care. Do I make mistakes, heck yes.. do I learn off these .. you bet!.

Those that have been active on this site and others realizes that I am pro EMT and pro EMS .. just because I challenge status quo, does not mean I am anti. At least I am attempting to change it by participating in changing the national EMS education standards. A 800 page textbook cannot begin to cover what is needed to know about emergency care.

Sorry, if I offended anyone...
Have a great day!
R/r911

 

[trauma1534]

Sorry, again it is apparent you cannot read the intent or reasoning behind my statement. Even you stated "anyone can be taught skills".. which is very true.

Sorry, I believe in education not training. Knowing why, how and all indications of treatment modalities prior to allowing someone to "start IV's" after a couple week class. Going to a couple night classes for a few weeks does not cut it. So many so called ALS providers having only attended a few nighttime classes and have no understanding of what, why, and side effects of what they are doing. I am sure you have seen and know many of these. Sorry, I prefer to leave training to animals and educating EMS personnel. Any time anyone establishes and starts IV fluids they are changing the osmolarity of the patients hemodynamics.

If you could understand the reason of my statement that we "train, rather than educate most EMT's, then you would know and understand the difference. Even Pedicurist that cuts and polish nails goes to school longer than most EMT's, much worse a beautician that cuts your hair goes to school longer than most Paramedic courses and yes, they usually pay more for their classes... this is outrageous!.

Yes, I am for EMS.. to upgrade, & to be better! But, we have to change the mentality of wanting to get things the easy way!!...Fast track EMT and even more horrible so-called shake and bake Paramedic programs.

I have no anger against EMT's.. just do not care to see those that claim to "save lives" .. with a few hundred hour class actually attempt denounce Paramedics?

I am not worried about being dangerous... I have seen many come and many go. I am very happy at EMS as well as my administrator, physician's and most important from the patient's (by the thank you cards I recieve) they are quite satisfied with my professional care. Do I make mistakes, heck yes.. do I learn off these .. you bet!.

Those that have been active on this site and others realizes that I am pro EMT and pro EMS .. just because I challenge status quo, does not mean I am anti. At least I am attempting to change it by participating in changing the national EMS education standards. A 800 page textbook cannot begin to cover what is needed to know about emergency care.

Sorry, if I offended anyone...
Have a great day!
R/r911

While your apoligy is excepted, I still wish you could find something better to do besides always making wise cracks towards EMT-B's. I understand your frustration in the curriculam these days. I thought the old EMT-A curriculam was much better. Sometimes I scratch my head when I see how some instructors just teach them to pass the test and not how to be a good EMT-B. However, we are not accomplishing anything by putting them down and fussing about it. And not all EMT-B's are idiots. You would do EMS better justice by trying to help these EMT's to bloom as providers instead of bashing them all the time. No matter how you plan for it to come out, you portray yourself as someone who hates the level of EMT-B and you insinuate that they are of no use in the back of an ambulance. You should watch how you word things if you want people to take it like you mean it. I think they need all the encouragement they can get because of the way that people such as yourself say things.

And one more thing... I read what you wrote about any barney can carry a gun. As I recall, Barney's character was someone who tried to act like he always came up with the great ideas, like he was the smartest of them all. Andy was always just supporting his mentality by making him think that so Barney wouldn't fall to peices. If anyone has the Barney mentality, it is you! You are the one always trying to look all big and bad on EVERY topic that comes up on the board. YOU are the one who is always trying to make people feel inferior to you! So, before you go trying to compair my friends to "Barney", look in the mirror!