How safety forces hose the public...

[nscfd22]

The linked site is no longer showing the original post, so I'm wondering if the host removed it.

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How safety forces hose the public

View Ron's Blog and comment on this article on the Machine Design
Forums.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
View Ron's Blog and comment on this article on the Machine Design
Forums.


There has been a big change in the way safety forces respond to routine
fender-benders, at least where I live. When I drive to the office, I
use
a freeway having four lanes in each direction. Initially, if there was
a
fender-bender, a single police car would show up, and as soon as
possible, the police would have the damaged vehicles moved to the
shoulder so that all four lanes would remain open to traffic. Then, a
fire-department ambulance began showing up with the police car
regardless of whether or not anyone was injured. (As an aside, I'll
mention that the police also began to leave the vehicles wherever they
collided, apparently unmindful of the terrible traffic tieups this
creates.) Next, two police cars began showing up along with the
ambulance. Then a fire truck began showing up along with the ambulance
and two police cars. With all these vehicles spread over the highway,
every minor collision essentially shut down the freeway.

In the many years I have traveled past these accidents, I rarely if
ever
saw any people injured. So at first I couldn't figure out why the
ambulances showed up. Likewise, there were rarely any fires, so I
couldn't figure out why the fire trucks were on the scene. And the only
purpose of the second police car seemed to be to add to the congestion.

Then newspaper articles began to shed light on the matter. What they
revealed is that typical big-city fire departments today are woefully
under worked. Fireman, today, spend most of their runs taking elderly
people to the emergency room for sprained ankles. More or less typical
is the situation at one Washington, D.C., firehouse where the crew
can't
recall being called to a significant fire in the last 18 months. So one
reason firemen respond to automobile accidents is to relieve their
boredom.

The biggest reason, however, is the fact that many communities now
charge to send fire trucks to accident scenes. A fireman hands a
clipboard to the drivers involved in an accident and asks them to sign
a
form, which most drivers do reflexively without question. Bingo! The
driver's signature lets the fire department ding the drivers' insurance
company for a charge. For example, the city of Cleveland now charges
$590 to send a fire truck to a minor accident, and it charges $850 to
free people from wreckage. The city expects to generate up to $2.5
million annually from this practice. An adjacent suburb expects to
build
three firehouses with the money collected from appearing at accident
scenes.

How bad does it get? Recently, not far from my house on a residential
street, three cars were involved in a chain-reaction rear-end
collision.
It was distinctly minor, and with a quick look as I drove past, I
couldn't even see any discernable body damage. Unbelievably, this
accident drew three police cars, an ambulance, a fire truck, and the
fire chief. The revenue generated by responding to accidents helps
cities perpetuate the overstaffing.

How much resulting featherbedding is there in municipal safety forces?
An example is what I saw from my office window, which at the time
overlooked Lake Erie. One day, police and emergency vehicles begin
arriving at a pier jutting into the lake. I didn't know what the
calamity was, but I was flabbergasted to see a mix of police cars, fire
trucks, and ambulances exceeding 14 vehicles. (There were so many
vehicles and they were crowded so closely together that I couldn't get
an accurate count.)

Later I found out that several days earlier, a woman bent on suicide
had
jumped off the pier and drowned. It was the discovery of her body
washing ashore that had brought some 50 policemen, firemen, and
paramedics to the scene. Evidently, time weighs heavily on the hands of
the under worked safety forces, and when they heard about the body on
the police and fire-radio frequencies, the huge crowd rushed to the
scene to put some excitement in their day.

-- Ronald Khol, Editor
Send feedback to MDeditor @ penton.com






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[ffemt8978]

The correct link for the article is:

How Safety Forces Hose the Public

 

[emt/fr]

I bet when the time comes when he is in an accident he will change his tune.

 

[Wingnut]

I'd rather have everyone there when I don't need them than not have them there if I did.

 

[Summit]

An interesting point though for the same reason that Fire has tries to absorb EMS to boost their calls....

One of the districts around here does it because their call volume has dropped significantly but they want to build more stations still. They've started sending an engine to SAR calls, They just sit there and try to be the PIO so they can get the publicity. They send an engine when an ambulance is transfering to a critical care ambulance on a cul-de-sac. It is completely unnecessary but it gets the FD publicity and lets them artificially boost their call numbers so they can ask for more tax money.

I'm waiting for them to start sending an engine to escort ambulances on level II interfacilities!

 

[CodeSurfer]

I agree with emt/fr... he wont be complaining when he gets into an accident or sprains his ankle.

 

[Firechic]

Good God!!! Has anyone been on an MVA and almost been hit by the crazy driver out there who does not care one iota about ANYONE on the highway???!!! Or the drunk one??
Anytime the MICU is called for our accident scenes - 2 engines are dispatch to create a safety area to work in. Tough sh*t if it causes some drivers an inconvenience. I'm not dying in order for someone to get from point A to point B 5 minutes sooner.
What is a MAJOR leading cause of death for firefighter and paramedics?
Traffic accidents - whether they are driving or on the side of the road at accident scenes.

How many cars drive by him at 70mph while sitting at his desk?
I invite Ronald Khol to stand beside me in an unprotected scene in the middle of an 8 lane highway and he can then tell me what a waste it is having additional units on scene. That is...if he doesn't get hit, die, or crap his pants from the danger.

I guess ignorant people are afforded the freedom of speech also.
:blink:

 

[coloradoemt]

The system I work in has every engine staffed with a medic. In all of the instances where I have been on an engine responding to an emergency I have never thought to myself, I really wish I had a medic on here with me. I think and agree with the assessment the FD are doing this to try and show they are more needed than they really are. Allthough there are some who would disagree, I do have at least one ally.

Toned to 53 F in resp distress. To make this simple I won't get into the call to deep. Location was a small clinic in a strip mall setting. Engine beat us on scene by a couple of seconds and drives by the address. As we roll up a lady comes out and flags us down. We go in and initiate pt care when the medic off of the engine shows up. Rather angry he asked the lady who stopped us why she did not flag down the engine as they passed. Her response, " Because I called for an ambulance not a fire truck." Insert partner and I trying not to laugh our asses off.

 

[Wingnut]

Originally posted by coloradoemt@Jun 28 2005, 08:32 AM
" Because I called for an ambulance not a fire truck." Insert partner and I trying not to laugh our asses off.

ROFL :lol: Priceless!

 

[emtbuff]

Originally posted by Wingnut@Jun 26 2005, 04:43 PM
I'd rather have everyone there when I don't need them than not have them there if I did.

I have to agree with wingnut and others that have mentioned having the extra help and not needing it as to having to need extra help and not having it. I for one am happy when you get an extra person in the rig that can help you or having others block the traffic so you know you aren't going to be the next victim.

 

[vtemti]

Originally posted by emtbuff+Jun 28 2005, 02:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (emtbuff @ Jun 28 2005, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wingnut@Jun 26 2005, 04:43 PM
I'd rather have everyone there when I don't need them than not have them there if I did.

I have to agree with wingnut and others that have mentioned having the extra help and not needing it as to having to need extra help and not having it. I for one am happy when you get an extra person in the rig that can help you or having others block the traffic so you know you aren't going to be the next victim. [/b][/quote]
For years we had to pull teeth to get any help from PD or FD. Nobody on the PD was medically trained and our fire chief, well.............another story. We now have a police chief that is an EMT and wants all of his officers to be trained. We get them for first response on every call. As for the FD, the current chief is also an I-tech with our ambulance. You probably get the jist of things without me having to ramble on. Point is, it is nice to know that they will be there whether needed or not.

 

[Stevo]

and our fire chief, well.............another story.

don't get me started unless your prepared to stifle me with tequila Boss...

 

[Ridryder911]

This is from another EMS forum.. that was reply sent to the author.....

By NSmedic./N.Y..

Posted in reply to Mr. Kohl’s article on his site


It is always interesting to see how the uninformed general public views the
public safety sector. From the comfort of your office, where it is apparent
you have nothing better to do then stare out the window you come up with
these gems of wisdom.
As for the amount of emergency vehicles at the scene of a fender bender on
the freewy I ask you this, do you know how many paramedics, EMT's, police,
and firefighters die at the scene of fender benders because the general
driving public is too busy to pay attention to the road? These are the same
drivers that manage to have an accident in bumper to bumper traffic. The
number of vehicles is to protect the emergency workers because the general
public cannot be trusted to.
As to the question of why do all of these vehicles need to respond, well ask
your local personal injury lawyer. It used to be that an adult who was
alert oriented could make a decision not to be transported to the hospital,
but then the lawyers needed to be heard from. So, after many police, fire
and EMS workers have been sued as well as the towns and cities they work
for, to protect themselves, those uninjured victims have to be carefully
interviewed, examined, and documented before being released after refusing
medical attention, since the lawyers will try to rip us apart if it is not
done well.
As for the charges imposed on those who use the services, it is a question
of need and budgets. if all public safety departments never charge those
who use the services, then the taxes for the entire population would be
higher. If you don't call 911 or are never involved in a traffic accident,
or any number of accidents that can befall an average citizen, you will
never have to pay. ( On a side note, many if not all auto insurance
policies cover ambulance and fire dept charges for an accident, and
homeoweners or business ins covers for fires and other needs of emergency
services).
If you think you know everything about the operations of your departments,
why not go and ask for a ridealong on the ambulance and see why they are so
busy taking grandma with a sprained ankle to the ED. It is because
emergency services cannot refuse a call. If you call 911 for a hangnail, an
ambulance has to respond, and if you demand a transport to the hospital, we
have to take you. Since if we refuse, the lawyers have a great time raking
up billable hours.
If you think this should be changed, go to your elected representatives and
get them to pass laws to give complete immunity to rescue workers, and laws
to allow for the emergency dispatchers, paramedics, cops and firefighters to
decide on who needs transport and who is abusing the system. And if you can
do that, maybe you can tell me how to differentiate between a massive
anteriolateral MI or is it a cold by using a blood pressure cuff, a
stethescope, and a penlight.


Thought it was an excellant reply...

Be safe,
Ridryder 911

 

[Jon]

I was also considering crafting a reply.

Ummm... DC may not have general alarm fires often, but I bet they are getting to spray water on either trash or room and content's several times a tour. I WISH I could say the same.


Jon