How can I prepare to be a paramedic in high school?

[Ecgg]

I agree that comparing a 20 year medic and a 1 month medic is unfair. But as a new medic I promise that I could smoke any of our seasoned medics on physiology, pharmacology, etc. but my ability to draw from experience is severly limited. Therefore I am much less equiped than any of them.

And as college is important, (I went to 3 years of it in order to get where I am) a degree is much less important than where and how you get your education.
The college where most of the guys on my department got their paramedic cert have a paramedic bachelor's program. Is someone that got a batchelor's degree in that program a better medic than someone from the one I went to? Hells no. For the reason's I stated before. They did the minimum mandatory hours of clinicals with rural departments that don't see very many calls, the minimum amount of intubations/IV's, and a whole lot of book work. You put someone in their last semester of the program in charge of a call and they freeze up. All that knowledge is good, but a program that offers real patient interaction, and lots of it, is much more valuable than a program that offers a degree.

Those that graduated college with minimum mandatory hours will gain said medical experience in the course of their job. The medic that graduated a certificate program will not gain college education in the course of their job. Over a few years the experience will come in and college graduate medic will out perform. Intubations and IV numbers are not #1 things of what makes someone a solid provider.

During your clinicals you probably encountered MD interns and residents who you may laugh "omg this guy sucks at intubations and he is MD????" or "this guy sucks at running this code, or starting an IV and he a Doctor?" Experience and skills come with on the job training and exposure. College education can only be gained by going to college.

 

[jefftherealmccoy]

Those that graduated college with minimum mandatory hours will gain said medical experience in the course of their job. The medic that graduated a certificate program will not gain college education in the course of their job. Over a few years the experience will come in and college graduate medic will out perform. Intubations and IV numbers are not #1 things of what makes someone a solid provider.

During your clinicals you probably encountered MD interns and residents who you may laugh "omg this guy sucks at intubations and he is MD????" or "this guy sucks at running this code, or starting an IV and he a Doctor?" Experience and skills come with on the job training and exposure. College education can only be gained by going to college.

Again, I disagree. I don't think a college grad will out perform me over the course of their career. I busted my *** studying in college. I learned a lot, and will continue to learn. That has nothing to do with the fact that I didn't earn a degree. I am not saying I will be better off than a college grad 5 years into their career, but I am definatly not worse off than them either.

Would a graduate from my medic school out perform a graduate from any nearby medic school that first month or year that they're placed on an ambulance by themselves? Yes. They have the experience to keep level headed when the :censored::censored::censored::censored: hits the fan and the skills needed when stuff gets hard. That is much more important to me than book smarts.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Do you think a 1000-1300 hour vocational Paramedic program certificate, often completed in 1 year, is better than a Paramedic with a bachelors degree?

A degree which more than likely ensures they have Biology, A&P, Chemistry, and sciences, which more than likely took longer to complete than the entire Paramedic program combined.... a 4 year degree vs a 12 month medic program.

If it was your family and you had to pick between 2 strangers to respond, both Paramedics with 3 years experience, would you pick the one with the 4 year degree in Paramedicine or the one with a 12 month vocational certificate?

 

[Ecgg]

That is much more important to me than book smarts.

 

[chaz90]

We need to transition from being a vocational tech position to one that has an academic foundation. How do we do that? By requiring degrees and building experience on top of a strong background in University level basic sciences. To move forward and be considered a real part of healthcare we can no longer afford to survive solely on the apprentice model vocational system.

 

[VFlutter]

Sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Knowledge is important, but experience tops it. Do I want a green paramedic straight out of school or a 20 year paramedic going on my family? I'll take the latter.

We will have to agree to disagree. 20 years of experience does not impress me. It is not uncommon for people to do the bare minimum and be mediocre at their job for 20 years. Doing something the wrong way for 20 years does not make you an expert (unless your in EMS). Personally I would rather have the medic who passed college algebra calculating my drug dosages over the paramedic who took a vocational course 20 years ago to keep his plush fire job.

And don't only go into a program because of the associate degree. Again, do you want a piece of paper saying you're a college grad, or do you want to be a good paramedic?

Why can't you have both? 20 years from now when you are burnt out from EMS and trying to support a family do you want a piece of paper saying you're a college grad so that you can pursue other careers and education or do you want to rely on the fact that you were a good medic and hope that will get you an interview?

And as college is important, (I went to 3 years of it in order to get where I am) a degree is much less important than where and how you get your education.

You put someone in their last semester of the program in charge of a call and they freeze up. All that knowledge is good, but a program that offers real patient interaction, and lots of it, is much more valuable than a program that offers a degree.

So you went to college for 3 years and did not get a degree of any kind? I would want my money back...

You will get real patient interaction on the job and will become more comfortable with it over time. You will not get the foundational education you receive in a degree program on the job nor with experience.

 

[Akulahawk]

Again, I disagree. I don't think a college grad will out perform me over the course of their career. I busted my *** studying in college. I learned a lot, and will continue to learn. That has nothing to do with the fact that I didn't earn a degree. I am not saying I will be better off than a college grad 5 years into their career, but I am definatly not worse off than them either.

Would a graduate from my medic school out perform a graduate from any nearby medic school that first month or year that they're placed on an ambulance by themselves? Yes. They have the experience to keep level headed when the :censored::censored::censored::censored: hits the fan and the skills needed when stuff gets hard. That is much more important to me than book smarts.

Actually, yes. Over the course of their career, a Paramedic with an actual degree will out-perform you. That Paramedic will be more likely to think outside the box and be able to apply those medications you have on your shelf in different situations than you will, simply because they know their medications and physiology a whole lot better than you do.

I have a degree and 2 years experience (including >3000 hours internship prior to graduation) in Sports Medicine. I'm also a Paramedic. I earned that after graduation. Guess what? I passed Paramedic without seriously cracking the book open. EMT was ridiculously easy. I'm now in RN school. I haven't learned a whole lot of new information, rather I'm learning to apply it differently and most of the new stuff is pathophys, pharmacology, and time management.

As a new grad Paramedic, I was a whole lot better at figuring out what needed to be done and why it was needed than most of my peers. I also tended to think outside the protocol box and come up with my own care plans... which usually closely mirrored certain protocols. Since I knew those well, I also knew when I had to call for orders and what to ask for, and why.

I attended one of the best Paramedic programs in the state and, at the time, the #3 Sports Med program in the country. Without having such a good education going into my Paramedic program, I'd have been just like you. A protocol follower that thinks that being able to do tasks well is the end-all of paramedic performance.

 

[jefftherealmccoy]

Why can't you have both? 20 years from now when you are burnt out from EMS and trying to support a family do you want a piece of paper saying you're a college grad so that you can pursue other careers and education or do you want to rely on the fact that you were a good medic and hope that will get you an interview?.

I guess i'm just banking on the fact the I'm gonna retire doing what I do now. Optimistic maybe?

So you went to college for 3 years and did not get a degree of any kind? I would want my money back....

I was on track to recieve a bachelor's in EMS administration when I got the job I was getting my degree for. Could I go back some day and finish up? sure. Do I need to? No. Got my dream job already.

You will get real patient interaction on the job and will become more comfortable with it over time. You will not get the foundational education you receive in a degree program on the job nor with experience.

My point is this exactly. A medic with a degree from a program does the minimum hours, with rural departments, will get used to it over time. A program with legit calls that goes above and beyond in hours is going to pump out paramedics ready to be self sufficient. And if it's a well run program, with the proper pre-requisits (anatomy, physiology, math, science ect.) they'll have the knowledge they need make their own judgements about patient care. Continueing education goes without saying here as well. You can have a phd in emergency medicine and I hope you still study throughout your career. I haven't stopped studying and don't plan to.

Actually, yes. Over the course of their career, a Paramedic with an actual degree will out-perform you. That Paramedic will be more likely to think outside the box and be able to apply those medications you have on your shelf in different situations than you will, simply because they know their medications and physiology a whole lot better than you do..

How is a medic going to understand a medication better than I do? I have the same requirements as anyone else in knowing what they do and how they do it.

I have a degree and 2 years experience (including >3000 hours internship prior to graduation) in Sports Medicine. I'm also a Paramedic. I earned that after graduation. Guess what? I passed Paramedic without seriously cracking the book open. EMT was ridiculously easy. I'm now in RN school. I haven't learned a whole lot of new information, rather I'm learning to apply it differently and most of the new stuff is pathophys, pharmacology, and time management.



As a new grad Paramedic, I was a whole lot better at figuring out what needed to be done and why it was needed than most of my peers. I also tended to think outside the protocol box and come up with my own care plans... which usually closely mirrored certain protocols. Since I knew those well, I also knew when I had to call for orders and what to ask for, and why. .

That's nice that you didn't have to crack a book. I had to bust my butt to pass with an actual understanding of the material so I could apply it in my patient care. And I was only able to do that when I had a clear head and could actually remember my studies, which came from the experience I gained from clinicals.

Did you have any experience as an EMT before you went to medic school?

I attended one of the best Paramedic programs in the state and, at the time, the #3 Sports Med program in the country. Without having such a good education going into my Paramedic program, I'd have been just like you. A protocol follower that thinks that being able to do tasks well is the end-all of paramedic performance.

Woah woah woah. Let's not take personal jabs here. I'm not saying that your education isn't worth every dime you paid for it. I just came from a school that idolized another because they offered a Paramedic Bachelor degree. Now students from the latter ride in my ambulance and I would rather have a fresh paramedic from my school over a medic from theirs any day. Dispite the fact that students from my school have less pre-requisits to get into the program, and you don't HAVE to graduate with any type of degree, they out perform students from the school that requires a bachelor's degree when you graduate the program.

 

[Akulahawk]

For some better readability, I'll respond in red below...

I guess i'm just banking on the fact the I'm gonna retire doing what I do now. Optimistic maybe?
That's great. Hopefully you manage to stay injury-free and are able to retire as a Paramedic. Have you started a retirement plan?


I was on track to recieve a bachelor's in EMS administration when I got the job I was getting my degree for. Could I go back some day and finish up? sure. Do I need to? No. Got my dream job already.
I'm glad you do have your dream job. It's wonderful that you really like what you're doing.



My point is this exactly. A medic with a degree from a program does the minimum hours, with rural departments, will get used to it over time. A program with legit calls that goes above and beyond in hours is going to pump out paramedics ready to be self sufficient. And if it's a well run program, with the proper pre-requisits (anatomy, physiology, math, science ect.) they'll have the knowledge they need make their own judgements about patient care. Continueing education goes without saying here as well. You can have a phd in emergency medicine and I hope you still study throughout your career. I haven't stopped studying and don't plan to.



How is a medic going to understand a medication better than I do? I have the same requirements as anyone else in knowing what they do and how they do it.
That's the thing. The medic with a solid education in the basic medical sciences is going to understand physiology a lot better than a medic that's only been to a school that does not require any A&P. Paramedic school can't adequately teach the material in the time allotted to reach the depth attained in a stand-alone, college level A&P course.





That's nice that you didn't have to crack a book. I had to bust my butt to pass with an actual understanding of the material so I could apply it in my patient care. And I was only able to do that when I had a clear head and could actually remember my studies, which came from the experience I gained from clinicals.
That's great that you had to bust your butt to understand the material. Here's why I hardly had to crack the book. I took college level A&P, chemistry, biomechanics, exercise physiology, therapeutic modalities, several assessment courses, and quite a bit more than that. You see a road rash. I see a lot more than that in that injury. I see many of the processes the body uses to repair that injury and what I need to do to help it. You see knee pain, I can accurately determine what structures are damaged, how badly, and short of surgery, I can manage that all the way back to competition-level performance.
Did you have any experience as an EMT before you went to medic school?
Yes, I did. I was able to do those things above long before I went to medic school. I had about a year and a half EMT experience before starting medic school because of the application cycles involved. About 1/2 that call volume was emergency runs, not IFT runs.



Woah woah woah. Let's not take personal jabs here. I'm not saying that your education isn't worth every dime you paid for it. I just came from a school that idolized another because they offered a Paramedic Bachelor degree. Now students from the latter ride in my ambulance and I would rather have a fresh paramedic from my school over a medic from theirs any day. Dispite the fact that students from my school have less pre-requisits to get into the program, and you don't HAVE to graduate with any type of degree, they out perform students from the school that requires a bachelor's degree when you graduate the program.
And what I (and others) are getting at is that those students will eventually catch up and surpass you and others that graduated your program because the have a very broad understanding of what's going on and they'll be able to think outside the protocol box. Without a good, solid education, you won't be able to step outside the protocols. You won't get past psychomotor skills.

You did know that MD's graduate from medical school... and they're not that good at being Doctors, yet their heads are full of knowledge. There's a reason why they have residencies. There's a reason why New Grad nurses are usually given 3-6 months orientation.

Do I stand by my statement? Absolutely. Without an adequate, and broad education based in the sciences, Paramedics won't know how to step outside the protocols. They won't know they can improvise a new care plan for those times that there is no protocol covering that and therefore won't know how to ask OLMC for orders specific to that patient and along those lines of that care plan just devised. Instead, they'll try to fit a patient to a given protocol... and therefore are known as "cookbook" medics. They follow the recipe. Well educated medics are more like chefs. Sure, they know the cookbook, but they also understand how to deviate from the recipe to fit the circumstance, and they can articulate why. They'll get the experience as they go along. As that happens, they'll surpass you.

But go ahead. Stay stuck in the notion that psychomotor skills are the best measure of a Paramedic's performance.

 

[Ecgg]

Seems like that fire department got the right man for the job.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Woah woah woah. Let's not take personal jabs here. I'm not saying that your education isn't worth every dime you paid for it. I just came from a school that idolized another because they offered a Paramedic Bachelor degree. Now students from the latter ride in my ambulance and I would rather have a fresh paramedic from my school over a medic from theirs any day. Dispite the fact that students from my school have less pre-requisits to get into the program, and you don't HAVE to graduate with any type of degree, they out perform students from the school that requires a bachelor's degree when you graduate the program.

The thing is, American Paramedicine is one of the only health professions which does not require a degree yet. Professionally, we all pay the price for this in a variety of ways. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I have been working abroad as a Paramedic for 3 years now. Internationally, the rest of the western world is requiring a bachelors degree for Paramedics. My last company was Australian, they now require a certain percentage(majority) of Paramedics to hold a Bachelors in EMS, Health Sciences, or Paramedicine. Soon, %100 of employees will be required. The place I just got at interview at states, "AAS or BS degree in EMS or Paramedicine strongly preferred" I spoke with HR and they will only accept non-degree candidates after they are unable to fill slots with degree candidates, regardless of experience or alphabet soup cards. Both these companies required years of experience before I could even apply.

Our American EMS education has been largely based on self-study and interdisciplinary work after our vocational training, followed by field experience you get on the job. The education itself is often not education, but "training, a Paramilitary vocational style type academy training. All this needs to be ditched in favor of higher education. What I don't get is, why are vocational certificate paramedics afraid of earning a simple AAS degree at a community college? You already have %60 of the course work from Paramedic school. With the low prices of community college, and the ability to compelte degrees via distant learning while continuning to work fulltime, I just don't get it.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Do you think a 1000-1300 hour vocational Paramedic program certificate, often completed in 1 year, is better than a Paramedic with a bachelors degree?

A degree which more than likely ensures they have Biology, A&P, Chemistry, and sciences, which more than likely took longer to complete than the entire Paramedic program combined.... a 4 year degree vs a 12 month medic program.

If it was your family and you had to pick between 2 strangers to respond, both Paramedics with 3 years experience, would you pick the one with the 4 year degree in Paramedicine or the one with a 12 month vocational certificate?

Not to mention more likely to foster a basic understanding of research, cultural, political, and historical perspectives, etc. And better preparation for managerial and educational functions.

My BSN program involved reading a lot of literature and poetry, and doing a lot of writing, mostly about how the historical or cultural themes in the assignment relate to present-day clinical scenarios. Many people look at a program like that and say "why do a BSN when it's all fluff, and much of it doesn't even involve nursing? What a waste". But, the critical thinking that was developed from all the reading and writing has been extremely valuable to me. The program faculty used to say "writing is thinking". The degree program also included courses in advanced health assessment, leadership & management, research, ethics, healthcare policy, and professional communication. Anyone who doesn't think that those things contribute to your development and performance as a professional, is absolutely kidding themselves.

There is much more to being a professional than just having a really solid grasp of the minimum knowledge needed to do the job.

 

[Carlos Danger]

What classes should I take? Please add any info that can help. Thanks.

Here is what I would suggest:

• Take science classes while in HS; especially biology or anatomy, if available
  
  
• Take a basic EMT course
  
  
• Graduate high school
  
  
• Work or volunteer as an EMT-B for a short while (6-12 mos)
  
  
• Go to paramedic school. Preferably a degree program, or do a "regular" paramedic program, and then start working on your degree right after paramedic school.

Good luck.

 

[Akulahawk]

Here is what I would suggest:

• Take science classes while in HS; especially biology or anatomy, if available
• Take a basic EMT course
• Graduate high school
• Work or volunteer as an EMT-B for a short while (6-12 mos)
• Go to paramedic school. Preferably a degree program, or do a "regular" paramedic program, and then start working on your degree right after paramedic school.

Good luck.

For someone starting out in EMS, I'd suggest this as well. Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with seeking out higher education. If there aren't any EMS Bachelor's programs near you, go ahead and go for a BSN. You'll be able to apply what you learn in the BSN program to your practice as a Paramedic. It will also give you many more career options later on.