Helmets?

[WuLabsWuTecH]

baby blue road vests? I thought national DOT had said they had to be those obnoxious yellows?

And by lightup do you men reflective or do you guys have lights mounted on them? I've seen vests with lights on them but they're mostly for the bike guys.

 

[DV_EMT]

well we're a disaster relief... so for us we dont have to meet DOT requirments (I think.... someone check me please). But they just have a crap ton of the super reflective tape. Hence why we light up!

 

[Pudge40]

I agree, much good discussion.

If it doesn't work, that's one thing, but i'd be ok with looking a bit weird if it's going to keep me safer. If it's not and might hurt me, then that's another issue. I assume that you guys have to wear those bright yellow (/safety green) vests on a scene of an MVA? Does it make me look rediculous? Yes, but I'll do it if it keeps me safer (I know i'm about to take some flak for this, so I will state that whether or not it keeps me safer is another discussion!)

It is not a requirement of the DOT it is a requirement of congress. They are the ones that passed the FEDERAL requirement that says ANYONE working along a FEDERALLY FUNDED roadway MUST wear either a class 2 or 3 saftey reflective vest. They are even supposed to be the 5 point break away. There are exceptions to the rule such as:

Working at an incident that involves fire - for firefighters.
Working at an incident that involves hazardous materials
Police upon initial contact with a driver during a traffic stop (the state police around here never wear the vests)
And also if the roadway is shut down you are not required to wear them.

If I am wrong with any information posted please correct me as this is what i got from the requirement, although I can't find the document online right now.

 

[usafmedic45]

Medivac

There are some- myself included- who believe there is growing evidence to indicate that the use of helmets among unrestrained aeromedical personnel may be one reason for a high rate of cervical spine and basilar skull fractures. I agree that helmets have their limitations and that the better practice is greater use of seat based restraints and application of injury prevention ergonomics to the layout of ambulance compartments rather than helmets or those inertial reel Peter Pan harnesses that have been developed and recommended by some.

but then again thats just me..... and everyone in nascar

Care to clarify the NASCAR statement? They still mandate helmets and have actually increased the safety of them through the application of the HANS head and neck support device. It is the added weight of the helmet that makes them hazardous in an unrestrained person or someone solely with their torso restrained. If anything- and I know the safety guys for several teams (NASCAR, IRL and Formula One) and a couple who contract to do research for NASCAR as a whole- they are probably the staunchest supporters of the use of helmets as part of a protective system in motor vehicle crashes. The problem is that people hear "helmet" and fail to realize that using one alone will not always save you and sometimes will do more harm than good. I liken it to going into a medieval sword fight wearing solely a steel codpiece and expect that to save you. It's not the use of helmets that's a problem it is the inappropriate use of helmets or misguided beliefs about their impact (no pun intended) that is the source of issues.

 

[Pudge40]

Disregard my first post about the safety cests. It is the DOT and the Federal Highway Administration that made the requirement. I believe that everything else is up to par but I will review the document and post changes as nesseccary (sp?).

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

well we're a disaster relief... so for us we dont have to meet DOT requirments (I think.... someone check me please). But they just have a crap ton of the super reflective tape. Hence why we light up!

Disregard my first post about the safety cests. It is the DOT and the Federal Highway Administration that made the requirement. I believe that everything else is up to par but I will review the document and post changes as nesseccary (sp?).

Since EMS in under the DOT, i thought that no matter what you work fo ryou had to follow those rules.

Pudge, are you still sure of those 4 rules though? B/c even when we have the intersection completely shutdown, we still wear the vests.

 

[DV_EMT]

Nascar.... the harness, not the helmet

...im sure we all remember earnhardt before the neck supports were enstated...

 

[Pudge40]

Since EMS in under the DOT, i thought that no matter what you work fo ryou had to follow those rules.

Pudge, are you still sure of those 4 rules though? B/c even when we have the intersection completely shutdown, we still wear the vests.

After I reviewed the document It does not speciffically say that however it does say: "All workers within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway who are exposed either to traffic (vehicles using the highway for purposes of travel) or to construction equipment within the work area shall wear high-visibility safety apparel. Firefighters or other emergency responders working within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway and engaged in emergency operations that directly expose them to flame, fire, heat, and/or hazardous materials may wear retroreflective turn-out gear that is specified and regulated by other organizations, such as the National Fire Protection Association. Firefighters or other emergency responders working within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway and engaged in any other types of operations shall wear high-visibility safety apparel."

It does however specifically state if you are directing traffic it is still required. The way I see it is if one lane on both sides of the lane you are working on are closed while you are working there they are not required but it is still possible that they are. Also no one will say anything to you if you wear it where it is not required big deal if you do. But if you don't wear it where required they may say something to you.

 

[usafmedic45]

Nascar.... the harness, not the helmet

...im sure we all remember earnhardt before the neck supports were enstated...

Right...but they still will argue that the helmets do a lot of good. They simply learned that they should be used in concert with proper restraints. I believe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say initially .

 

[DV_EMT]

Right...but they still will argue that the helmets do a lot of good. They simply learned that they should be used in concert with proper restraints. I believe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say initially .

correct... misunderstandings happen.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

What about this, you are strapped in, but your head is next to a cabinet. Would the helmet help or hurt you should your head and the cabinet interface? Especially if you hit a corner?

 

[usafmedic45]

What about this, you are strapped in, but your head is next to a cabinet. Would the helmet help or hurt you should your head and the cabinet interface? Especially if you hit a corner?

Depends upon the amount of force involved. Most likely in that situation, it would help. The problem is when you exceed the limits of G that the neck muscles can withstand while the chest is tightly restrained but the head is not. Usually this is more of a problem with neck flexion/extension than with lateral motion of the head. There is some evidence to support that the added weight of the helmet contributes to injury in this situation (not the hitting your head issue, but the deceleration situation I mentioned) by both adding weight to the head and causing fatigue of the neck muscles.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Depends upon the amount of force involved. Most likely in that situation, it would help. The problem is when you exceed the limits of G that the neck muscles can withstand while the chest is tightly restrained but the head is not. Usually this is more of a problem with neck flexion/extension than with lateral motion of the head. There is some evidence to support that the added weight of the helmet contributes to injury in this situation (not the hitting your head issue, but the deceleration situation I mentioned) by both adding weight to the head and causing fatigue of the neck muscles.

Well, we've finally come full circle. That was the original question I posed (or was trying to pose) before we took a tangent (and a nice, educational, beneficial one I might add). But I'm thinking that helmets in that situation can help too.

Also we have a padded ceiling, and I know this because my head has hit the ceiling before due to driver going over speedbump. I was new to that rig (all the others I can stand comfortably while this one requires a bit of bending) and never have I made that mistake again. Luckily it was barely a tap but it was a wake up call. I now crouch much lower in the rig and keep a lower center of gravity.

 

[usafmedic45]

Also we have a padded ceiling, and I know this because my head has hit the ceiling before due to driver going over speedbump.

I've always argued that padding as we see in ambulances and cars probably does very little in any sequence serious enough to inflict serious or lethal injury. If one really wanted to do that, the thickness of the padding would have to be such that it would be prohibitive or you would have to find a material that would be much more effective at absorbing a given amount of energy for a given unit of deformation while remaining strong enough that ordinary "impacts" from day to day contact would not damage them or degrade their ability to fail as designed when and if the time comes that they should be needed to protect occupants. The other option is to eliminate corners altogether replacing them with rounded surfaces so as to spread any impact forces over a greater area. Ideally, you would apply both of these options together for maximum benefit.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Well, when I know what my senior design project is now for my Biomed Engineering Degree! :-D

Yeah, the padding is pretty thick, about 2-2.5 inches, but not enough that if I had hit it harder it would have prevented me from a world of hurt. But for a light bump I didn't feel any pain at all...

 

[usafmedic45]

Well, when I know what my senior design project is now for my Biomed Engineering Degree!

:lol: All I ask is that the source of the idea be listed in the writeup of it. Heck, I'll even help you with your project if you want. I'll trade that for co-authorship on one of my papers on injury patterns. Feel free to PM me if you need anything.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

So I just wanted to update you guys on this. After submitting reports and such, I just got a CQI form to fill out in my inbox. I assume CQI is just about patient care right? Should I even mention something about the whole being thrown around thing or is it time to let that go? (This call seems to STILL be following me around!)