Have you actually made tactical medical rescues stateside?

[mycrofft]

People watch "Blackhawk Down" or read "On Call in Hell" and imagine daring heroic medical intervention done with one hand while firing with the other over a riot shield propped up in the middle of a free-fire zone.

 

[rhstanford]

The Border Patrol has a large number of Agents trained as EMTs. They do patrol stuff until they are needed and then it is usually for treating an illegal alien who has been walking through the desert for sevral days in 100+ degree heat with no water. They give lots of IVs but see very few serious trauma calls. There is also the Search and Rescue team, but I think they have the same type of calls but they get to do more of the rescue stuff.

 

[mycrofft]

These second duty deals are good, but what I've tried to explore here is the concept and the reality of medics who go armed and are in the thick of fighting in the USA (not in a war zone, on the streets or in a prison or similar).
I just don't see that it is a practicable paradigm.


I think such training is good so a medic going with the SWAT or similar team, but who is stationed a wee bit out of the way, knows what's happening, knows what NOT to do so she/he and the patient are safe, and in the extreme situation might be able to defend them....although it seems that doesn't happen either.

Authors and scientists have a saying about their work: "Kill your babies". Don't be afraid to discard paradigms proven wrong or happening as rarely as hens chewing steak.

 

[epipusher]

Our swat medics sound similar to others posted. I am not a member but have friends that are. They go where the rest af the members go and are second to last in line during an entry or building search. They are unarmed as well but do go through weapons training incase of a "last man standing" situation. That is of course possible although it sounds like a good excuse to hit the range.

 

[Arovetli]

one medic does not equal a swat team or police unit proficient in buddy aid/first aid/trauma care.

while im a fan of a swat medic, I'm also a huge fan of real medical training and ifaks for each officer.

a properly applied tourniquet and homeboy ambulance patrol-car style are probably as effective as a solid medic on the team on overall trauma outcomes.

indeed, the majority of a medics functions are administrative and prophylactic, rather than truly life saving. more of a medical officer role.

 

[mycrofft]

An example of tactical rescue in the military. GO to minute 17.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho2VSLhZshA

Different?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Real rescues by your definition happen so rarely domestically that the figures would be almost nil. As I'm sure some of the other vets will attest to, we should be thanking our lucky stars we don't live in a place where it happens daily. If people want to do these types of things their only option modern day is a trip to the sandbox. In reality domestic tac medic duties is 99% training 1% operational.

 

[DPM]

It sounds like it would be more beneficial (based on the testimony of those that have close contact or real life experience) to have Law Enforcement that is trained in TCC, rather than having an EMT or Medic with a little bit of SWAT training.

Thoughts?

 

[mycrofft]

Given the rarity of situations where a specifically super-trained medic would be required to enter a hot area and treat; training people to scoop and scoot and basic tx seems better than a dedicated cadre of combat trained medics.

 

[Tigger]

Given the rarity of situations where a specifically super-trained medic would be required to enter a hot area and treat; training people to scoop and scoot and basic tx seems better than a dedicated cadre of combat trained medics.

Very few if any places have a fulltime tactical medic, I'm not sure where this dedicated cadre idea is coming for. If an agency wants to train street medics with a TCCC type course and have them on call, that seems fine to me. If the SWAT team wants to train a member with EMS experience, also fine.

What is the harm in doing either of these? I just don't understand what the issue is with the current models. Yes, rescues under fire will be exceedingly rare but that is obviously not the primarily roll, and no one is arguing otherwise.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My system isn't perfect but I will just use it as an example. We service a town of 1.2 million. At all times we have two tems medics working. They are ALS practicioners who deploy out of two different stations in different parts of town. They have swat like jump suits on and operate out of SUV pru style suburbans. If there is a tactical operation I'm town they are toned out. They can also be toned out for chest pain calls etc involving high acuity for extra paramedics on scene for those type of calls and they can also pick and choose to assist trucks in their area of town with random calls. This is the way things are done here and it seems to work well but in many ways the service I work for is ahead of the curve in certain areas. Other Canadian services use ours as a model for TEMS services. Its not perfect but from my point of view it works well.