Finding non-fd 911 work.

[atlasD]

I recently earned my NREMTB. Volunteering. College science courses leading into A&P. Heading into paramedic.

In my city, everything is ran by the fire department and everyone only goes through EMS courses at the community colleges so to look shiny to the FD. I'm not one of those people. I've wanted to work EMS for a long time without the idea of firefighting crossing my mind. Here it is damn impossible to find private ambulance work, if you do it is only transfers. There is never openings.

Anyways, I posted about background checks on firehouse.com and its made me wonder if I would ever beable to be hired on a fire department. I :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed up when I was a kid. I'm older now, and wised up but it doesn't sound like getting on a fd is neccessarily possible and if it is at all it will be a long time down the road of "proving" myself.

So there is that.

This is probably a rediculous question. Elsewhere is it possible to find Non-fd 911 work and make a decent living?

Lets say "decent living" is 30,000, not carrying multiple jobs, and living in a city with a median income of around 40,000.

After starting the my preqs to a&P I'm finding myself interested in learning more about plant biology/ecology. Being a teacher sounds very rewarding. I want to be a paramedic, but the idea of only transfering for several years is not what I want.

Please shine light on what a city without their head stuck up there a** looks like. THANKS.

 

[DrParasite]

It depends on where you want to live. There are many hospital based EMS systems throughout the US. there are many municipal based EMS systems in the US.

There are many EMS systems in New Jersey that have absolutely nothing to do with FDs. in fact, every ALS system in NJ is hospital based.

I know Pittsburgh runs an all ALS system, and Wake County in South Carolina has a pretty well developed system (from what I hear). Boston EMS is not fire based, and if you look around, there are many more.

One thing you should remember: most big systems will run background checks, will interview you, and check references. some of the smaller companies will not do this, but you will be paid less and generally the jobs suck, as will some private companies that tend to suck.

 

[FLEMTP]

I work for a county ran EMS service. EMS is all we do... and starting salary for a paramedic is about 51k a year.. my first full year here i pulled in close to 70 and thats only working occassional overtime. We do 24/48's. We are housed with FD for some of our stations.. some of our stations are stand alone EMS stations. In florida you can find many places that are non FD 911 ems agencies... and the pay can be pretty decent sometimes.

What exactly did you do that you screwed up as a kid? Many times background issues are non issues provided you are truthful about it in the background investigation.

 

[JAM-EMT]

www.becomeamedic.com

http://www.acadianambulance.com/employee_recruit_videos.html

Acadian Ambulance is a service which covers 33 parishes in Louisiana, 1 county in Mississippi, and 6 counties in Texas. I'm not sure what the starting pay is for paramedics, but it is a very good company to work for. There are many opportunities to move around in the company, to different areas, or even different jobs. It is also an ESOP company.
http://www.acadianambulance.com/esop.html

They also run an Airmed service using helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, which eventually you may have an opportunity to do.

In addition, they operate their own EMS school,
www.nationalemsacademy.com

just throwing this out there if you don't mind moving somewhere else.

Also if offshore medic is your thing, they run Safety Management Systems
http://safetyms.com/site.php

 

[Foxbat]

I know Pittsburgh runs an all ALS system, and Wake County in South Carolina has a pretty well developed system (from what I hear). Boston EMS is not fire based, and if you look around, there are many more.

One of the interesting things about Pittsburgh EMS is that not only it is completely separate from fire but also that it runs technical rescue in the city, FD only assists them.
Ditto about extensive background checks. I know a medic who applied to Pittsburgh EMS; the process with all the interviews, polygraph check, etc. took something like a year and by the time he got a job offer from them he already found a better place for employment.

 

[Jon]

One of the interesting things about Pittsburgh EMS is that not only it is completely separate from fire but also that it runs technical rescue in the city, FD only assists them.
Ditto about extensive background checks. I know a medic who applied to Pittsburgh EMS; the process with all the interviews, polygraph check, etc. took something like a year and by the time he got a job offer from them he already found a better place for employment.

Devils Advocate. If Pittsburgh is such an awesome EMS system... what could be better?

 

[Jon]

To the OP... Depends on where you are.

As for Fire vs. EMS background checks... the places that will hire folks without good investigation into their background are probably places you might not really want to work. Not sure what your exact issue is... Everyone makes mistakes. Many places are willing to be somewhat forgiving... Best thing to have is a good solid work history with good references. Can it be said that you are the guy who's never late. The guy who takes pride in their work... be it EMS, doing laundry in a nursing home, or cleaning the stables? The guy who is willing to go the extra mile? Or do you show up barely on time, punch a clock, and go home?

If you are asking someone to take a risk on you... and you present a good case that you are a hard worker... They are more likely to accept you.

As for things that are really unfriendly on a criminal history: I'd guess any sort of felony... especially fraud/theft/embezzlement. Insurance/Medicare fraud is a huge deal. And on the fire side particularity, Arson is a hot-button. We have enough firefighters that play pyro... hiring a known arsonist is gonna be hard.


As for making a good living? Umm. Yeah. Right. Not as an EMT, working just one job.

To get started, I'd look at transport/private side 911 providers. Get your foot in the door, and stick around a bit. Connect and network, and go from there.

 

[feldy]

Not sure where you live but if you look into larger cities, there are usually some private ambulance companies. I live in MA where the majority is private with a few towns having one or two ambulances. In my region, some of the companies may have one or two paramedic units in service while two of the local hospitals run the areas ALS assissts with BLS transport.

 

[atlasD]

To the OP... Depends on where you are.

As for Fire vs. EMS background checks... the places that will hire folks without good investigation into their background are probably places you might not really want to work. Not sure what your exact issue is... Everyone makes mistakes. Many places are willing to be somewhat forgiving... Best thing to have is a good solid work history with good references. Can it be said that you are the guy who's never late. The guy who takes pride in their work... be it EMS, doing laundry in a nursing home, or cleaning the stables? The guy who is willing to go the extra mile? Or do you show up barely on time, punch a clock, and go home?

If you are asking someone to take a risk on you... and you present a good case that you are a hard worker... They are more likely to accept you.

As for things that are really unfriendly on a criminal history: I'd guess any sort of felony... especially fraud/theft/embezzlement. Insurance/Medicare fraud is a huge deal. And on the fire side particularity, Arson is a hot-button. We have enough firefighters that play pyro... hiring a known arsonist is gonna be hard.


As for making a good living? Umm. Yeah. Right. Not as an EMT, working just one job.

To get started, I'd look at transport/private side 911 providers. Get your foot in the door, and stick around a bit. Connect and network, and go from there.

What exactly did you do that you screwed up as a kid? Many times background issues are non issues provided you are truthful about it in the background investigation.

My Rap sheet:
As a teenager:- Experimented with marijuana, no arrests.
- Assisted in theft of lawn ornaments, no arrests.
- Ran up my credit, got a judgement, filed for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy never went through, but it appears as it did.
- Flew through part-time employment, something like 20 jobs before 20 years old. Fired once, but they fired everyone in the store that was working the same shift due to a coworker's theft. Many of the jobs I would just not show up after a couple days, so maybe they have me listed as fired. Those jobs I bet I didn't even pick up the check for. Always early to work. Couldn't find the motivation to flip burgers, nothing was fulfilling.
- Dropped out of high school. Later graduated with high school diploma (not GED)
Since being a teen (22 going on 23 now):
- Arrested on citation infractions, non misdemeanor charges. Obstructing the highway(sidewalk), and disorderly conduct. Basically, being at the wrong place at the wrong time while people were protesting. Judge threw the charges out.
+ Steady employment at security company for year and half. Always early/on time, missed one day of work.
+ Finished out a year commitment with Americorps National Service.
+ Right now I'm basically an unemployeed(focusing on school) boring college student/volunteer.



From some on firehouse.com it seemed there is a better chance of hell freezing over. A few people thought that with enough solid work history between finishing school and testing, I would have a chance.

I've passed background checks in the past (pre-bankruptcy, don't know now). Both my most recent jobs required them, as well as my VFD. I worked security at a government training installation, and Americorps has their own background procedure. Neither of these jobs asked the hard hitting questions though, they just based everything on if I have mis or felonies. Also I don't usually inform employers of how many jobs I've held, not so much to lie but because I took many jobs just to try them out and see if I liked them. These days I know how rediculous that is.

Do most decent EMS companies do polygraphs, interview neighbors - dig deep?

I'm on a volunteer department to gain experience before I start Paramedic school. Lately I'm getting more worried about not finding a paying job after the schooling.

 

[feldy]

all employers im sure do background checks and driving records history. Just be honest on your applications and be ready to talk about it in interviews if asked. dont lie just dont tell them more than they need to hear. I have not any any problems with the law but I am friends with a few people high up on the legal chain and thats the advice they give me.

 

[Foxbat]

Devils Advocate. If Pittsburgh is such an awesome EMS system... what could be better?

My understanding is that to work in Pittsburgh EMS he would have to move into the city and he would rather not do that. I don't know if there were other factors.

 

[alphatrauma]

Don't sweat it

Ahh... the joyful indescretions of youth.

Seriously, you have enough solid employment to work with until you finish school. Previous marijuana use is a non-issue... if an ex-smoker can get into the White House, I don't see you having trouble with fire service or EMS.

I personally know police officers, government officials, and clergy who have past records (juvenile) that would make you look like a saint. Point being, we were all young and stupid at some time in our lives. We make mistakes, we mature/learn from them, then we move on.

Keep your nose clean from here on out, and you should be fine.

 

[Jon]

Looks like you've never been convicted. As far as I know, most places only ask about convictions.

As long as you left your previous employer on good terms, and Americorps will give you a good recommendation, I don't think you have much to worry about about your past.

 

[EMSLaw]

I have to agree with what the others have said. The problem for most people in passing a background check is not what they've done - it's that they attempt to hide or lie about it. Whatever the application asks for, answer honestly. You may get extra scrutiny, but in the end, if you've told the truth, there's less to hold over you. Your past is what it is, but if you lie, you show that you are dishonest RIGHT NOW.

Incidentally, I've known several current lawyers who I went to school with or clerked with who managed to get admitted to the bar despite youthful indiscretions (I don't think any included bankruptcy, but more along the lines of juvenile delinquincy, underage drinking, misdemeanor drunk and disorderly, etc.) While all of them were grilled by the Character and Fitness Committees of the several states to which they applied, all were eventually admitted to the bar.

So, be honest. Even in the worst case scenario, not getting the job now is better than getting it and being fired six months from now when the results of your fingerprints come back and you're found out as a liar.

 

[46Young]

I did two poly's before being hired. Things they're looking for here are no drug use in the past year, no deviant sexual behavior, lying, and no violent crimes as the main things. The general thought nowadays is that since so many have experimented with drugs, there would be too few qualified applicants if a zero tolerance drug Hx was in effect.

Your 1 1/2 year work Hx is a good start. It's also good that you quit only to go to school. Another thing they look at is your credit Hx. Do your best to stay current and raise your score. Keep a spotless driving record from here on out.

For the poly they'll give you a comprehensive oral interview first. They'll ask you questions such as "Have you ever lied to get out of trouble"? Of course you have. Saying no raises a red flag with the detective. Another trick is the last question "Have you lied about anything you've told me today"? One of my recruit school buddied told me they asked him if he excessively mastrubates. He said "Define excessive". The detective got annoyed at that. They'll ask you off the wall questions like that to throw you off.

 

[firecoins]

My Rap sheet:
As a teenager:- Experimented with marijuana, no arrests.

So what? Half the people I know in EMS did so in high school and or college. Hell President Clinton admitted to doing so. Bush was an alcoholic. I think Obama admitted to some drug use. NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg admitted to doing pot.

- Assisted in theft of lawn ornaments, no arrests.

There is no record of it than unless you tell them.

- Ran up my credit, got a judgement, filed for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy never went through, but it appears as it did.

You wouldn't be the only person w/ bad credit in EMS.

- Flew through part-time employment, something like 20 jobs before 20 years old. Fired once, but they fired everyone in the store that was working the same shift due to a coworker's theft. Many of the jobs I would just not show up after a couple days, so maybe they have me listed as fired. Those jobs I bet I didn't even pick up the check for. Always early to work. Couldn't find the motivation to flip burgers, nothing was fulfilling.

Don't put them down on your resume. I am not saying to lie but they are not relevant to EMS emloyment. These thing won't come up on backround checks.

- Dropped out of high school. Later graduated with high school diploma (not GED)
Since being a teen (22 going on 23 now):

Okay so you have high school diploma. Whats the problem?

- Arrested on citation infractions, non misdemeanor charges. Obstructing the highway(sidewalk), and disorderly conduct. Basically, being at the wrong place at the wrong time while people were protesting. Judge threw the charges out.

okay. Tell them this. They are infractions not felonies.

+ Steady employment at security company for year and half. Always early/on time, missed one day of work.

There is relevant employments. Put that on your resume.

+ Finished out a year commitment with Americorps National Service.

Another resume builder.

+ Right now I'm basically an unemployeed(focusing on school) boring college student/volunteer.

Its allowable.


I don't see the problem. You can get hired.

 

[Level1pedstech]

My Rap sheet:
As a teenager:- Experimented with marijuana, no arrests.
- Assisted in theft of lawn ornaments, no arrests.
- Ran up my credit, got a judgement, filed for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy never went through, but it appears as it did.
- Flew through part-time employment, something like 20 jobs before 20 years old. Fired once, but they fired everyone in the store that was working the same shift due to a coworker's theft. Many of the jobs I would just not show up after a couple days, so maybe they have me listed as fired. Those jobs I bet I didn't even pick up the check for. Always early to work. Couldn't find the motivation to flip burgers, nothing was fulfilling.
- Dropped out of high school. Later graduated with high school diploma (not GED)
Since being a teen (22 going on 23 now):
- Arrested on citation infractions, non misdemeanor charges. Obstructing the highway(sidewalk), and disorderly conduct. Basically, being at the wrong place at the wrong time while people were protesting. Judge threw the charges out.
+ Steady employment at security company for year and half. Always early/on time, missed one day of work.
+ Finished out a year commitment with Americorps National Service.
+ Right now I'm basically an unemployeed(focusing on school) boring college student/volunteer.



From some on firehouse.com it seemed there is a better chance of hell freezing over. A few people thought that with enough solid work history between finishing school and testing, I would have a chance.

I've passed background checks in the past (pre-bankruptcy, don't know now). Both my most recent jobs required them, as well as my VFD. I worked security at a government training installation, and Americorps has their own background procedure. Neither of these jobs asked the hard hitting questions though, they just based everything on if I have mis or felonies. Also I don't usually inform employers of how many jobs I've held, not so much to lie but because I took many jobs just to try them out and see if I liked them. These days I know how rediculous that is.

Do most decent EMS companies do polygraphs, interview neighbors - dig deep?

I'm on a volunteer department to gain experience before I start Paramedic school. Lately I'm getting more worried about not finding a paying job after the schooling.

You will have a harder time with fire or a fire based system but never say never. 46young gave you a good idea of what to expect, the real problem is the number of jobs versus the number of applicants that are in far better shape than you. If you have three candidates and two have spotless records (criminal and financial),maybe a degree,military service some time as a volunteer or as a reserve then there is someone that has your problems, granted your not a hardcore felon but when compared to the other candidates you are less than attractive. I'm sorry but its a fact, you can let the other people blow sunshine up your shorts but you really at least at this point don't have much of a chance with fire or a fire based system. There are only a few on this site that have even a slight grasp of what it takes to get the badge and the rest are just passing on advice that might make you feel good and is with the best of intentions but will be of no use to you. If fire or fire/medic or even a position with an above average private is in your future you are going to have to be a competitive candidate.

My first bit of advice is to head over to the forums at firecareers.com and spend some time reading posts from others in your position and there are many. If you ask you will get good solid advice from people who deal with these issues everyday. There are some people that are involved with testing and recruitment for some very large departments as well as alot of career guys that are always willing to help out a guy who has heart and is willing to do whatever it takes to get a badge. Most remember how hard the process is and are happy to hand back advice to those that need it. There is a ton of free advice and when and if you need it there is paid content that will help you with finding upcoming tests in all 50 states. Pay close attention to interview advice because with what you have to offer you are going to need to bring your A game to any oral interview you may get. Learning how to give a good interview is going to be your number one priority.

You have your work cut out for you but you have time on your side, the average age of new recruits is over 30 with many in their late thirties or above. Any good job be it fire or EMS is going to be tough to get especially with the economy and more people looking for work, You also have to factor in returning military, a group which is very highly regarded especially by fire. Good luck and remember never say never.

 

[46Young]

I forgot to add that I view the poly as an interrogation, designed to trip you up into making damaging admissions. Think about it - the poly is inadmissable in court. There's no actual scientific basis to the practice. The poly administrator, usually a detective with a psych degree, will have you believe that he/she can, in fact, tell if you're lying with the machine. What they can do is use that misconception to get you to spill your guts prior to and during the actual test. That's admissable in court. First, tell the truth. Second, don't run off at the mouth with verbal diarrhea. When you attempt do explain an admission with a whole explanation, it looks like you're hiding something. The poly is a tool that's used to draw out confessions. The detective may try to tell you that you're lying about something by showing you charts and stuff. Hold your ground, provided you've told the truth. Going back on previous statements is bad. Very bad.

 

[alphatrauma]

...One of my recruit school buddied told me they asked him if he excessively mastrubates.

My reply: "Okay, we're done here" *exit stage left*

 

[Jeffrey_169]

It really depends upon where you live and what you want to do. In TX EMT do not work in ER's but this is common in other places. There are also dispatchers positions available. Once I received my paramedic degree I able to receive a promotion at work, even though I was laid off shortly there after. You might look into safety positions; safety training and supervisors are used in a variety of industries around the country, and they like to have EMTs or Medics.

I don't where you live, but Texas is really ignorant as well. I knew a kid who wrote some checks in another state several years ago because of an error in his checkbook, and even thought they were misdemeanors and several years ago, and he long since paid for them, they still refuse to give him license over it. He eventually got tired and went to CO where he practices now as a Medic.