EMS Goodbyes. aka bawwwquit.

[rescue99]

If all you former EMS people are looking for a Pub, why are they on an EMS site?

I do like your comparison of present EMS Education to Dennys. :unsure:



So education should be banished off to a chat room where the records are not kept for later reading. Got it. :wacko:

Losing educational threads seems to be the concern here. It is invaluable to have exceptional people take charge in leading meaningful discussions with all the bells and whistles of a class room. It would be useful to remember that a class room includes didactic content, discussions, agreements and sometimes hearty disagreements, theory, news and development. It's okay to sit back and relax and not play that role too but, once one chooses that role in a thread, he/she has an obligation to stay in keeping with the role as a leader. NO school that I know of would ever sit idly by and allow any educator to frequently call students stupid, ignorant, illiterate lemmings in the name of education. Agreeing and disagreeing doesn't include ripping a person to pieces..in fact, it is counter productive to the learning process.

People are getting away from subject of education, mistakenly insisting that we have the right to display screaming, negative behavior to get our points across in every single thread nearly. It isn't like we can pick and choose. Some of these folks chase threads just to fight or show off or whatever the agenda might be. Where's the professionalism in that? I've read a thousand times, loud and clear; "we want to be thought of as a profession." What purpose does interjecting constant negativism serve in this objective??

I have yet to meet anyone who learned a darned thing from a filthy mouthed educator. It's unethical and unnecessary and certainly makes an individual less than credible in my experience. When a lesson is filled with colorful adjectives, a learner must spend much of his/her time trying to sort adjectives from objectives. Meaning often gets lost in translation. Example: the reader is thinking "Am I stupid because the educator says I am or is the idea I have incorrect?" While I am busy subliminally or otherwise, attempting sort that out, the subject has already moved on and now I am lost! The only clear message I got was being called stupid! The entire objective is then lost and the educator has failed to reach his/her intended audience.

Take home message; There is a huge difference between sugar coating and being affective.

 

[mycrofft]

Nope, Summit, you didn't get it. Not to worry.

I liken EMTLIFE to a pub. If you want totally tensely serious, go take CEU's for a grade and a certificate, or, as I have, PM or email people to get closer and better communication. Without the social component, these websiotes wither and die. And get dry and boring beforehand.
"Denny's" was an extension of my metaphor of the pub, nt a critique of presentday EMS training. Personally judging by the new grads I think they don't spend enough time nowadays on selecting the proper gourd rattles and smoking incenses.

I didn't think about there being no way to save chatroom procedings. Except the SAVE button in the lower left, I just remembered that! Good point anyway.

I don't want the moderators to banish anything except the equivalent of someone jumping up on a table trying to start a riot. I have not even seen anything resembling a serious attempt at that, maybe out of revolutionary incompetence.

"Pub" is short of "public house", and there are two basic rules in a pub: don't cross the private owners (the house), and don't tick off the other customers (public).
S'all good.

 

[enjoynz]

He could also have been banned because he corrected or disagreed with somebody, that person whined to the mods, and that was that. Poor whacker got his feelings hurt, so they have to fix it.



Are you familiar with the concept of nonviolent resistance? The site got turned into us vs. them the second this policy was put in place. I'm still convinced that the real purpose of the zero tolerance policy is to eliminate those advocating education, professionalism, and change. Because if there are any things that large groups of the EMS population (read: volunteers and firefighters) fear, those things are medical education, professionalism, and ESPECIALLY change.



I'm betting the site is dead because of the same reasons this site is dying... the whackers, volunteers, and firefighters don't want education or professionalism, they want a hobby or a patch. And the ones that went there pulled the same "baaaaaawww" BS that the uneducated here are pulling.

I never asked for suggestions on stethoscopes. I went out, tried several, then picked the one within my means that I liked best. You know, like adults do.



And there are no such things as medical directors, medical command, or Pre-Hospital Physicians? EMS is MEDICINE... doctors are practitioners or medicine... that means that they should come into the discussion here. They are providers with a MUCH MUCH higher level of education than you or I. Translation, shut up and listen to them.

Talk about touche...seems I hit a bit of a raw nerve.
It's funny how things always get turned around to FF's and Vollies yet again. LOL
I never once said I didn't appreciate Dr's (or nurses for that matter) input on this site or that I have not listened to them.
In fact I've had some very helpful information via PM from a member with regard to the cardiac problems within my family.
Which I was very grateful of.
I just said that they are not super human, like some think they are.
I know there seems to be alot of medic's over there that use EMS as a stepping stone to become Doctor's ...good on them.
I've always promoted that, with the folk I talk to on the chat,that are looking to that direction.
We don't tend to have that happen here, as it makes for a very lenghty education, with the time already spent in university for a Paramedic degree.
As far as Doctors and nurses with regards to feild medicine,unless they are involve with it, they do have issues.
I can speak first hand as far as having a nurse turn up at an incident with nothing but her bare hands.
Who then handed the pt's over to me (I was not on duty) because I was EMS trained. Much to my surprise at the time, I must admit.
I have a sister-in-law that is a GP...I've asked her advise in the past. Which she has been unable to help me with, because of her lack of knowledge with field medicine.
These are just a few of the things I've observed first hand.
My reason for the comment about the doctor's was because of something someone else posted, that irked me.

Enjoynz

 

[Summit]

Losing educational threads seems to be the concern here. It is invaluable to have exceptional people take charge in leading meaningful discussions with all the bells and whistles of a class room. It would be useful to remember that a class room includes didactic content, discussions, agreements and sometimes hearty disagreements, theory, news and development. It's okay to sit back and relax and not play that role too but, once one chooses that role in a thread, he/she has an obligation to stay in keeping with the role as a leader. NO school that I know of would ever sit idly by and allow any educator to frequently call students stupid, ignorant, illiterate lemmings in the name of education. Agreeing and disagreeing doesn't include ripping a person to pieces..in fact, it is counter productive to the learning process.

I guess I'm not seeing all of this bad behavior or out of line attacks from educators except in one or two rare cases where the discussion got really heated because the other side started slinging insults first or belittling the information providers for providing information that maybe they didn't want to hear. That's why I'm saying the people whining are thin skinned as hell.

The "fights" that occur in this place are about as bad as a watergun duel compared to the knock down dragout flamewars fought with chainsaws and nuclear weapons on other internet forums.

 

[TgerFoxMark]

wow. looks like the thread really got some attention. Now, to move on, what can we do, as members, to bring the site back to the level of participation, and former movement towards helping EMS?

(and yes, im in med school. but i still am an EMT)

 

[rescue99]

I guess I'm not seeing all of this bad behavior or out of line attacks from educators except in one or two rare cases where the discussion got really heated because the other side started slinging insults first or belittling the information providers for providing information that maybe they didn't want to hear. That's why I'm saying the people whining are thin skinned as hell.

The "fights" that occur in this place are about as bad as a watergun duel compared to the knock down dragout flamewars fought with chainsaws and nuclear weapons on other internet forums.

The difference is, this not a weapons or war forum. Those are more political. This forum claims education is one if its primary focus. I gave a few suggestions about talking to an audience which goes for both sides of the fence...experienced and inexperienced.

 

[Summit]

The difference is, this not a weapons or war forum. Those are more political. This forum claims education is one if its primary focus. I gave a few suggestions about talking to an audience which goes for both sides of the fence...experienced and inexperienced.

Either you didn't understand the analogy or you are missing the point which is that in honeest and open debate between passionate people (EMS providers) about passionate subjects (EMS), there will be tempers and scuffed feelings. The only way not to have that is to end debate.

 

[rescue99]

Either you didn't understand the analogy or you are missing the point which is that in honeest and open debate between passionate people (EMS providers) about passionate subjects (EMS), there will be tempers and scuffed feelings. The only way not to have that is to end debate.

Then we agree to disagree.

 

[Crepitus]

. . . . the point which is that in honeest and open debate between passionate people (EMS providers) about passionate subjects (EMS), there will be tempers and scuffed feelings. The only way not to have that is to end debate.

Well I would agree with Summit about the tempers and scuffed feelings. It is going to continue to occur.

But I don't consider that education. In all my years of formal education I found tempers and scuffed feelings to be an infrequent occurence and even less frequently did they require the use of a moderator. Of course the internet format creates a new set of issues (and probably draws in a whole different class of learners).

Losing educational threads seems to be the concern here. It is invaluable to have exceptional people take charge in leading meaningful discussions with all the bells and whistles of a class room. It would be useful to remember that a class room includes didactic content, discussions, agreements and sometimes hearty disagreements, theory, news and development. It's okay to sit back and relax and not play that role too but, once one chooses that role in a thread, he/she has an obligation to stay in keeping with the role as a leader. NO school that I know of would ever sit idly by and allow any educator to frequently call students stupid, ignorant, illiterate lemmings in the name of education. Agreeing and disagreeing doesn't include ripping a person to pieces..in fact, it is counter productive to the learning process.

I think Rescue essentially said the same thing.

In my short time here, I've observed some very intelligent folks, some very knowledgable people - as an older, crusty type coming back I'm blown away by the increase in the knowledge level of those who practice paramedicine. Unfortunately, most of those folks don't present themselves as having the hearts of eductors. At least not the way I was 'educated'. Though perhaps that has changed as well. :unsure:

 

[TransportJockey]

Holy hell... I'm not here for a week and old timers leave? Someone PM me with what happened.... please...

 

[Summit]

Well I would agree with Summit about the tempers and scuffed feelings. It is going to continue to occur.

But I don't consider that education. In all my years of formal education I found tempers and scuffed feelings to be an infrequent occurence and even less frequently did they require the use of a moderator. Of course the internet format creates a new set of issues (and probably draws in a whole different class of learners).

Agree on the different set of issues in online collaborative forum based education, however, COMPLETELY disagree on the lack of education from debates on here.

From my post in a now locked thread:

I can say that I've gained gobs of knowledge here when the debates rage and the intelligent, the educated, and the experienced contributors post up long posts detailing the evidence and the experience behind their points. And they don't always agree! That lead to the most informative threads of all!

 

[mycrofft]

Fuggedaboudit.

This is part of the natural life cycle of a forum which is not too constricted.

If people are this emotionally invested, it's working, but it can be "too-working" sometimes. I don't understand the taking of "sides" unless people are bored and looking for competitive entertainment; frankly, the basic fare aside from the participants' viewpoints is dry and irritating in its repetitiveness, but trying to make it into some sort of dominance game including self-proclaimed arbiters and armchair cagefighters means you are only seeing it on two dimensions.

Unless you are a wheelchair van wannabe (not a bad start,actually...), you must have been party to really serious stuff. Anytime this seems intense, I just remember a twelve year old's brains on my pants or a guy dying after his birthday dinner being defibbed in a gutter while his wife watches, and I realize these little wars are party games.

Party games.

Count to three, come on back, and let's quit trying to pull rank on one another, we're being silly. ​

 

[Hal9000]

Unless you are a wheelchair van wannabe (not a bad start,actually...)
Party games.

Ahh...the mythical job. There are some around here that manage to get those gigs. And some days...I hear them call in. There is this note of in their voice...it speaks of being well-rested, of light paperwork loads, of joy-filled romps through fields of blooming wildflowers, of clean, pure air...

And yes, sometimes I wish to kidnap them and stash them in my basement so I might get such an assignment. But, as my best friend noted, I'd have to get rid of all of the transients chained up down there, so I still ride and ambulance. :huh:

Seriously, you bring up very good points. I applaud you. Now I've got to go feed my pet homeless.