Hi, I'm new to this site and I had a terrible thing happen today. I was on my way home on a train and the train operator announced over the loud speaker that there was a medical emergency and the train will be stopping. I'm an EMT-B, fresh out of EMT school and I knew I could help. I got off my train and looked for the pt. and I found her sitting on the escalator, there were two other train operators around her. She was a 77 y/o female that had fallen down the escalator at another station and took a train to the station that we were currently at. She had some abrasions on her hands and ecchymosis around one side of her face. I introduced myself and provided my identification as an EMT when asked by one of the operators and began assessing her. At first, I suspected a CVA so, I attempted to perform the Cincinnati Stroke Scale, but she didn't completely comply. She didn't want to set her bag down so, when she squeezed my finger, it was only with one hand so, I asked her politely to set her bag down and she didn't. She seemed a little confused and she was a little aggressive and wanted to go home. She also didn't remember falling. She didn't have a history of epilepsy, but I strongly suspected that she had a seizure. Anyways, by the time we got to the top of the escalator, she really didn't want to deal with me. She said that I was a terrible EMT and if she were my boss, I'd be fired and I barely had the chance to do anything. I checked her pulse, asked her about the fall and barely got through the SAMPLE history.Then the train operator said "We (referring to him and the other train operator) can take it from here. I deal with this type of stuff a lot, but thank you very much." The other operator thanked me too and I felt like CRAP. I still feel like crap and I can't stop thinking about what happened. Does this make me a bad EMT?
Does this make me a bad EMT?
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jorjon8228
Forum Ride Along
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Dude don't feel like crap! Ur confidents showed just by you going to help! Most new emts would be scared to even get involved. Don't worry about the operaters. U just racked up expierance, great job.
Rin
Forum Captain
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I'd say you were in an awkward situation of feeling you had a duty to act, but no real authority or support. You have to remember, you can try to convince a patient to go to the hospital, but you can't force them to accept care.
You're just starting out. You really can't judge your abilities based on the words of a person who's having a bad day.
You're just starting out. You really can't judge your abilities based on the words of a person who's having a bad day.
teedubbyaw
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Don't get involved. Simple.
CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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Going to change it a little... don't get involved unless you are on duty and in uniform.
TransportJockey
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This. Thats my thinking
Underoath87
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I wouldn't base my own professional self-worth on the words of a confused old lady (or any patient, really).
But I probably would have just called 911 and let them handle it.
But I probably would have just called 911 and let them handle it.
titmouse
aspiring needlefairy
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The "Good samaritan law" should protect him. As it was stated before, at least you have shown some interest when most green EMTs would freeze up. Also you were not on the clock so technically you are not directed to help out. Something similar happened to me on the way to work a couple of weeks ago. A car coming up towards on the opposite lane made a sharp left and went straight into a rehab building, nearly nailed a pedestrian on the sidewalk. That night I came home and told my lady about the incident and her response was "You are an EMT why didnt you help?" the answer is was easy: "I do not have any equipment and I am not on duty". Take pride in what your initial reaction was but always evaluate your surroundings. Cheers! :beerchug:
Ace 227
Forum Lieutenant
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You probably came off as a bit of a Ricky rescue/ were over diagnosing the situation. I mean, they announced there was an emergency but did they specifically request for assistance? She was alert enough to tell you she didnt want to go to the hospital and that she felt you were incompetent. She seems pretty stable and as a BLS provider w/o equipment, what would you be able to do for a seizure/stroke?
Its great that you are excited about being an EMT but as has been stated, not on duty? No duty to act. If the pt seems stable, I would simply ask if they wanted me to call 911 then went on my merry way.
Its great that you are excited about being an EMT but as has been stated, not on duty? No duty to act. If the pt seems stable, I would simply ask if they wanted me to call 911 then went on my merry way.
teedubbyaw
Forum Deputy Chief
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mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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What would you do before you were an EMT? If they let you (the passengers are the train crew's charges), just sit, talk, help her feel less scared and helpless while waiting for the ambulance to come.
You were bare handed and off the clock. An assessment like that would not yield info you could use. Sometimes you make people comfortable, protect them from public spectacle, and make sure the cavalry's coming.
You were bare handed and off the clock. An assessment like that would not yield info you could use. Sometimes you make people comfortable, protect them from public spectacle, and make sure the cavalry's coming.
Ace 227
Forum Lieutenant
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So being offduty with no ambulance or authority, how would you have a disoriented pt get to the hospital? Like I said, if she was truly not oriented, call 911.
EDIT: directed towards teedubyaw
EDIT: directed towards teedubyaw
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teedubbyaw
Forum Deputy Chief
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Recanted. I read your post out of context.
Ace 227
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Understood. I'm obviously not saying she definitely didn't need to go to the hospital, I was just making the point mycrofft made, I just did so far less eloquently, lol.
Drax
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In my opinion, you did a fantastic job (based on your story). I know there is a certain stigma, the whole "random guy first responder" showing up saying he's got c-spine when on-duty ems shows up. But I don't dislike these individuals, in fact, I'm impressed. If you're doing what you can, and you're working in the best interest of the patient or injured person, then you're not just being a lookie lou.
Now, if you were starting to get in the way, or not properly handing over care when asked to relieve it (by a higher level of care) or discontinuing it when asked to stop by the patient, then I'd rather you not be around.
In this situation, you were on point, so don't feel bad; congratulations. Please react and move like this in the future!
Now, if you were starting to get in the way, or not properly handing over care when asked to relieve it (by a higher level of care) or discontinuing it when asked to stop by the patient, then I'd rather you not be around.
In this situation, you were on point, so don't feel bad; congratulations. Please react and move like this in the future!
You didn't do anything wrong per se, but the train operators(and possibly the patient) probably recognized you for what you were, someone who took a first aid class and is trying to assess this patient based on a rigid format you learned in a classroom and read from a book, but who has no actual experience. The train operators probably weren't lying when they said they have experience with this kind of thing all the time.
In this type of situation a lot can depend on how you identify yourself as an EMT. Its tricky and hard not to come off as some ricky rescue, even if you really are just concerned about the person and really do want to help. If that is the case its probably best to not even mention you're an EMT, or even intervene unless you see bystanders doing something stupid or harmful to the patient or the person is in cardiac arrest or something. If need be just stand by and call 911.
This was probably a good experience for you. After seeing your EMT license maybe you got a little bit of an inflated ego, and this experience brought you back to reality. Patients will only be impressed by your title or uniform or patches up until you say or do something stupid.
In this type of situation a lot can depend on how you identify yourself as an EMT. Its tricky and hard not to come off as some ricky rescue, even if you really are just concerned about the person and really do want to help. If that is the case its probably best to not even mention you're an EMT, or even intervene unless you see bystanders doing something stupid or harmful to the patient or the person is in cardiac arrest or something. If need be just stand by and call 911.
This was probably a good experience for you. After seeing your EMT license maybe you got a little bit of an inflated ego, and this experience brought you back to reality. Patients will only be impressed by your title or uniform or patches up until you say or do something stupid.
Ewok Jerky
PA-C
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Sounds like you didnt do anything "wrong". But as most have said, I wouldn't have done anything. More often than not you will be in the way when responding as a lay person, and probably come off as a nut bag (despite your skill and good intentions). The length my civilian involvment is chest compressions and maybe abd thrusts/back blows. In other words, if you aren't dying, you dont need my help beyond calling 911, which I am sure the train oparators had already done.
To answer the OP's question:
No you are not a bad EMT. This was actually a great opportunity to practice your assessment with an actual Pt, and a difficult/noncooperative one at that.
To answer the OP's question:
No you are not a bad EMT. This was actually a great opportunity to practice your assessment with an actual Pt, and a difficult/noncooperative one at that.
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mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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Been there, done that, got the t shirt, washed the car with it.