Characteristics of quality paramedic schools?

[Kookaburra]

I've seen lots of people advocate for increased education for paramedics, and as a student myself, I can't agree more. (I'm a nerd, I'm always sad when the lab/lectures are over, heh) My program is OK (though the CC it's done through is sooo bureaucratic. I already have my 4-year Bachelor's, but I still have to take all the BS breadth classes to get a lower 2 year Associate's Degree, how does that make sense?! Another woman in my class has a Master's in mathematics and engineering, and she's in the same boat, having to take lots of low level classes to fulfill the breadth stuff.)

I was wondering because at first when I saw all of the suggestions that people take college A&P classes I was very confused - my program requires a year of A&P to even apply. Is it not the same in other programs?

So, my question is - what would your ideal Paramedic education program look like? What are the really good programs out there, and what policies/procedures do they share?

My program looks like this:
1st year - EMTB classes, EMS rescue and communications classes, College Writing, Human Relations, Medical Terminology, A&P, Chemistry.
2nd year - Paramedic classes/clinicals, more human relations, health classes, public speaking, intro to computer science.

We use the Brady Book, and also have the ACLS Advanced Cardiovascular Life support book, The 60-second EMT, Math for Meds, and a few other books. Oh, and the local protocols are part of our exams and quizzes. We have 8 hours of lecture and 6 hours of lab a week.

 

[VentMedic]

Degree? You are really lucky you live in Oregon or you would be attending a tech school with the 3 month wonder program in other states.

http://www.emtinc.net/emsclasses.htm#Paramedic_EMS

"You don't need none of that useless education crap to be a Paramedic. Too much book learnin' distracts from the street smarts stuff."

 

[Kookaburra]

3 mos?! Holy crap, I can't even imagine that. Ours is a full year (though the last quarter is all internship).

Yeah, I'm really glad that Oregon paramedics have to have a degree, it's just... I already have one, and now I'm having to pay through the nose to take courses that wouldn't have been challenging in high school, let alone after going through a rigorous 4 year college. (In my computer science class, our first assignment was to send the instructor an email. I can tell this is going to be a fabulous use of my time.)

Oh, and we have to have a course in college algebra to apply as well. That was handy, because I'd always felt sort of weak on math, but managed to muddle through high school algebra and trig with B's. The way the course was taught at the CC, though I really felt like I was mastering it, which has been helping me feel confident when calculating drip rates, etc.

 

[triemal04]

For starters, don't fall into the trap of believing everything that ventmedic says; it's not (as in this case) always accurate. What I mean is, that, while only Oregon and Kansas require a degree to be a paramedic, a 3 month paramedic course is NOT the norm or something that "you would be attending" elsewhere. They are the exception, not the rule.

Depending on what your bachelor's is in, you should be able to opt out of some of the courses; if you haven't already talk to a councilor (not necessarily one from the EMS program) and see if they will give you credit for what you've already done; it's also possible to challenge the classes at the state level, but I wouldn't be to focuses on that.

Yes, many of the classes are lower level and won't be as challenging as what you've done. That being said, most will still have good information that will relate to being a paramedic. Spend the time going deeper into the topics. And, if possible, get the classes that are required for the degree out of the way before you start the actual paramedic class; life will be so much simpler when you start your internship and clinical. And no, A&P is not a requirement nationally.

 

[VentMedic]

For starters, don't fall into the trap of believing everything that ventmedic says; it's not (as in this case) always accurate. What I mean is, that, while only Oregon and Kansas require a degree to be a paramedic, a 3 month paramedic course is NOT the norm or something that "you would be attending" elsewhere. They are the exception, not the rule.

They don't have to believe me which is why I provide links.

It is also easy enough to check the "number of hours" each state requires.

So try again with your little slander crap against those with an education. Looking at your other posts today it looks like you are on a real smear campaign against anyone with an educated opinion just so you can stick up for the FDs and their medic mills. It is a shame that you fail to see the weaknesses of those that hold EMS back.

 

[wyoskibum]

Yeah, I'm really glad that Oregon paramedics have to have a degree, it's just... I already have one, and now I'm having to pay through the nose to take courses that wouldn't have been challenging in high school, let alone after going through a rigorous 4 year college.

Unless your degree is with an un-accredited college, they should accept credits from your four-year college. Did you inquire about transferring credits? If they say no, make a big stink and threaten to complain to the accrediting agency.

 

[MrBrown]

Unless your degree is with an un-accredited college, they should accept credits from your four-year college. Did you inquire about transferring credits? If they say no, make a big stink and threaten to complain to the accrediting agency.

That's a pretty good idea mate; pitch a stink and they should square you away.

Looks like Oregon has a pretty good setup; guess you're kind of in the middle huh between Washington who has Medic One and California who has like the worst Paramedics I have ever met (haven't personally been to Florida yet).

 

[Kookaburra]

Unless your degree is with an un-accredited college, they should accept credits from your four-year college. Did you inquire about transferring credits? If they say no, make a big stink and threaten to complain to the accrediting agency.

Nope it's from an accredited college, but the CC uses quarter credits, my college credits are in semesters, also, my college is from out of State, and used different course titles. I already went and pitched a fit, and basically I was told that I would have to some how obtain a syllabus of the courses I took (I graduated 2 years ago) and find an instructor in the departments that I wanted transfer credits from and talk them into putting in a good word and then MAYBE I could transfer SOME of the credits. It's pretty much a scheme to get people to take as many courses as possible there. And they're not even useful, academic courses like history or philosophy (which I actually enjoy and would have a blast taking. It's crap like "Human Relations at Work" and "Staying Fit for Life" and "Improving Parent Child Relations" and "Intro to College Writing" (after having to turn in several thousand words of essay in a week for four years, it was almost insulting.) Ah well - I just tell myself that when I go for a Master's or a B.S. degree, if I stay in Oregon this stuff will transfer. <_<

But back on topic: what would be your ideal Paramedic program? I keep having thoughts about how I would teach the course, skills, etc as I'm sitting in class... but I'll need quite a few more years under my belt before I can even think about that.B)

 

[atropine]

To the OP if you don't like it move and go somewhere else, medic schools are a dime a dozen and does it really matter where you go?, your patch will say paramedic just like my patch say paramedic and thats what really counts.^_^

 

[Kookaburra]

Sorry, stuck here with my family right now... if I could move I would be up in Portland going to OHSU.

And no, the title on the patch isn't as important as the education in my head, tyvm.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

So, my question is - what would your ideal Paramedic education program look like? What are the really good programs out there, and what policies/procedures do they share?

Pre-requisites:
- College Algebra or higher
- English Composition 101
- General Psychology
- Developmental Psychology
- Intro Biology with lab
- Intro Chemistry with lab
- Intro Physics with lab
- Microbiology with lab
- Human Anatomy with lab
- Human Physiology with lab
- Electives:
* Some sort of personal health course (e.g. Nutrition)
* Some sort of cultural diversity course (e.g. Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, etc.)
* Some sort of physical education course
* Some sort of foreign language course

Qualifications:
- EMT-B review exam (would include college A&P material)
- Oral interview panel
- Personal essay, letters of recommendation

1st Year Sequence:
- Anatomy & Physiology Review
- Pathophysiology
- Basic ECG Interpretation
- Infectious Diseases
- Physical Diagnosis & Intervention
- Pharmacology
- Medical-Legal Issues
- Psychiatric Crisis Intervention
- Pathology I (fundamental disease processes of various body systems, would also include autopsy viewing and case reports)
- Traumatic Injury

2nd Year Sequence:
- 12-Lead ECG Interpretation
- Cardiology (this would include ACLS/PALS certification)
- Pediatrics
- Advanced Physical Diagnosis & Intervention
- Pathology II (continuation of Path. I with more autopsy viewings & case reports)
- Geriatrics and Aging
- Disasters, WMD's, Terrorism (would include MCI's & ICS)
- Environmental Emergencies
- Ambulance, Rescue, and Tactical Operations (would include communications, and radio reporting as well)
- Research Methods

Clinical Internship: rotations through Emergency, ICU/CCU, Peds, Neo-nate, L & D, Psych, and Surgery departments of various hospitals interspersed throughout the 2-year program

Field Internship: minimum 600 hours and 80 ALS patient contacts in a high call volume district after a thorough, formal introduction to preceptors & the agency you'd be interning with (no meeting preceptors for the first time on day one of your internship...yeah I bet no one's had that happen to them). Would begin upon completion of all required coursework & exams for didactic and clinical portions of the program.

That's my ideal situation. Will probably never happen though. Dare to dream!

 

[John E]

Wow...

that's an ambitious list of classes and requirements. What sort of job should a person be able to get after going thru all of that education and training?

Not knocking it, I'm honestly curious.

And when would the student be allowed to sleep?

John E

 

[VentMedic]

that's an ambitious list of classes and requirements. What sort of job should a person be able to get after going thru all of that education and training?

Not knocking it, I'm honestly curious.

And when would the student be allowed to sleep?

John E

Those are short list of the prerequisites for almost every allied health and nursing program. There are actually a few more. This should also be part of every Paramedic program and there are a few EMS degrees that are like this.

The Paramedic portion is similar to what you would find in a decent Paramedic program longer in length.

Thus, this should should meet the requriements for just a mere Associates degree which should be the minimum for a Paramedic.

I personally think Loma Linda's program should be the minimun but that would be a dream.

 

[daedalus]

Not so ambitious compared to RN programs. RN students have time to sleep

 

[thegreypilgrim]

that's an ambitious list of classes and requirements. What sort of job should a person be able to get after going thru all of that education and training?

Not knocking it, I'm honestly curious.

Well, if I had my way that would just be an example of a typical paramedic program. If I really had my way it would be part of a 4-year B.S. degree, but as it stands I'd be happy with a 2 year program. In my admitted fantasy world this sort of education would be required for every paramedic in the nation. The function and role of the paramedic wouldn't be as it currently is, but more like a P.A. that functions in the field. Yeah, less people would attend these programs initially, but that would lead to increased pay which would inevitably draw more students toward that career track.

And when would the student be allowed to sleep?

John E

Meh, they'll be fine.

 

[John E]

Hmmm...

an associates degree is generally meant to mean a degree that can be earned at a community college in 2 calendar years attending classes full time.

The initial pre-requisites are approximately 40-45 units worth of school time alone, that's assuming an average of 3 units per class which is probably low for some of them, particularly the science classes. 40-45 units of schooling at the college level is approximately what it takes to earn a postgraduate Degree which is of course on top of whatever lower level degree one already has.

There is no way on this earth, Canada included, that a person could take that many classes including the pre-requisites AND complete an 800 hour internship within 2 years. 800 hours divided by 40 work week, that's 20 weeks of full time work all by itself. A typical semester is 16 to 20 weeks long. That's one entire semester just to complete the internship and that's if you could do at all at one time.

This sounds more like a program to take AFTER earning a associates degree first. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea.

And again I ask, what sort of job would a person be able to get after completing such a course? I think it's a great idea to increase the education of all EMS providers if the job and the salaries are commensurate.

yeah, I know, sleep is overrated...

John E

 

[daedalus]

an associates degree is generally meant to mean a degree that can be earned at a community college in 2 calendar years attending classes full time.

The initial pre-requisites are approximately 40-45 units worth of school time alone, that's assuming an average of 3 units per class which is probably low for some of them, particularly the science classes. 40-45 units of schooling at the college level is approximately what it takes to earn a postgraduate Degree which is of course on top of whatever lower level degree one already has.

There is no way on this earth, Canada included, that a person could take that many classes including the pre-requisites AND complete an 800 hour internship within 2 years. 800 hours divided by 40 work week, that's 20 weeks of full time work all by itself. A typical semester is 16 to 20 weeks long. That's one entire semester just to complete the internship and that's if you could do at all at one time.

This sounds more like a program to take AFTER earning a associates degree first. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea.

And again I ask, what sort of job would a person be able to get after completing such a course? I think it's a great idea to increase the education of all EMS providers if the job and the salaries are commensurate.

yeah, I know, sleep is overrated...

John E

To be fair, some AS degrees in Nursing cannot be earned in just two years as well. For example, the AS degree for a local college in nursing requires two years of nursing school on top of about six months to a year of pre-reqs (depending on how many you take a semester).

They would have the job title of paramedic after completing the said courses.

 

[VentMedic]

an associates degree is generally meant to mean a degree that can be earned at a community college in 2 calendar years attending classes full time.

The initial pre-requisites are approximately 40-45 units worth of school time alone, that's assuming an average of 3 units per class which is probably low for some of them, particularly the science classes. 40-45 units of schooling at the college level is approximately what it takes to earn a postgraduate Degree which is of course on top of whatever lower level degree one already has.

There is no way on this earth, Canada included, that a person could take that many classes including the pre-requisites AND complete an 800 hour internship within 2 years. 800 hours divided by 40 work week, that's 20 weeks of full time work all by itself. A typical semester is 16 to 20 weeks long. That's one entire semester just to complete the internship and that's if you could do at all at one time.

This sounds more like a program to take AFTER earning a associates degree first. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea.

And again I ask, what sort of job would a person be able to get after completing such a course? I think it's a great idea to increase the education of all EMS providers if the job and the salaries are commensurate.

yeah, I know, sleep is overrated...

John E

Okay, here is a link to a college that offers Associates degrees.

http://www.broward.edu/programs/#AS

Look under the A.S. section for any health care profession.

Actually let me help you with that:

Try:
Radiation Therapy
Respiratory Care
Nursing
Diagnostic Medical Sonography
Dental Hygiene

 

[John E]

True enough...

but we're not talking about a Nursing program. Sounds like there would need to be a new title given to a degree of this sort. A "mere" Associates just doesn't have the zing to it that it should.

I would hope that someone completing a program as described would be making a decent salary for their troubles.

So now that all the educational problems have been solved, how should I carry my stethoscope...?

John E

 

[daedalus]

John, who needs a real education? Just an FYI, Vent has 3 undergraduate degrees in various medical sciences, has a graduate degree in exercise physiology, and is nearing the end of obtaining a PhD.