Camera Phone Pics

[Sasha]

Just a general curiosity, because this sounds kind of... fuzzy to me.

We caused injury to a patient yesterday. It was a mistake, and we feel bad about it, however, we are being told that we should've taken pictures of the wounds for evidence and documentation with our camera phones.

However, I feel that violates the patient's privacy and is a biiiiig can of worms should the pictures somehow make its way to people who are not directly involved in the situation and have no business with them. I would never send the pictures around, but I would rather not have that responsiblity.

Does your company have a policy for this? What are your thoughts on cell phone pictures of caregiver inflicted injuries?

 

[rescue99]

Just a general curiosity, because this sounds kind of... fuzzy to me.

We caused injury to a patient yesterday. It was a mistake, and we feel bad about it, however, we are being told that we should've taken pictures of the wounds for evidence and documentation with our camera phones.

However, I feel that violates the patient's privacy and is a biiiiig can of worms should the pictures somehow make its way to people who are not directly involved in the situation and have no business with them. I would never send the pictures around, but I would rather not have that responsiblity.

Does your company have a policy for this? What are your thoughts on cell phone pictures of caregiver inflicted injuries?

Check you HIPAA laws. They do apply here. The patient would have to agree to photos for the purpose in which you intend to use them.

 

[Sasha]

Hmm, I don't know. Even if the patient's POA did agree, I just see it as asking for trouble.

 

[MrBrown]

The ED doctors take photos of nasty or unusual injuries for the ortho registrars and consultants and whatnot here; wonder if we could look at doing the same pre hospitally?

 

[rescue99]

Hmm, I don't know. Even if the patient's POA did agree, I just see it as asking for trouble.

I'd sure as heck want that in stone!

 

[JPINFV]

Check you HIPAA laws. They do apply here. The patient would have to agree to photos for the purpose in which you intend to use them.

"QA/QI" (i.e. don't do X or this will happen) is an acceptable use of information under HIPAA. My biggest issue would be using my camera for the documentation.

 

[Scout]

we are being told that we should've taken pictures of the wounds for evidence and documentation with our camera phones.

Ask for the companies written procedure for an accidental injury caused in the workplace. If the procedure did not outline in advance that you must obtain pictures on your personal mobile device then sod them. Also ask if this is now the become standard practice will they be providing the relevant tools to facilitate their requirements for report making.


Ps. Anyone get the picture of a cot going down a highway in Fl yesterday?

 

[guardian528]

Check you HIPAA laws. They do apply here. The patient would have to agree to photos for the purpose in which you intend to use them.

just make sure you get something in writing. if it's not written down it never happened. . .

 

[wyoskibum]

Just a general curiosity, because this sounds kind of... fuzzy to me.

It is fuzzy... First and foremost, you should always apologize to the patient and their family. Admit that it was a mistake and an unfortunate accident. Do not try to minimize the incident or place blame on anyone else.

We caused injury to a patient yesterday. It was a mistake, and we feel bad about it, however, we are being told that we should've taken pictures of the wounds for evidence and documentation with our camera phones.

Negative. You notify your supervisor. You fill out an incident/accident report which documents what happened. Describe the injuries that you saw and the treatment that you gave. If come down to litigation, your company will have full access to the patients records regarding the extent of the injury.

However, I feel that violates the patient's privacy and is a biiiiig can of worms should the pictures somehow make its way to people who are not directly involved in the situation and have no business with them. I would never send the pictures around, but I would rather not have that responsiblity.

If your company is so concerned with covering their anatomy, then the supervisor should do an immediate accident investigation and ask permission from the patient to take photos of the injury.

Does your company have a policy for this? What are your thoughts on cell phone pictures of caregiver inflicted injuries?

Yes, we are not allowed to use our cellular phone cameras while on the job. PERIOD!

 

[Sasha]

I didn't post this to be scolded about the shoulda dones, although yes I apologized and did the documenting. I was asking soley about the camera aspect.

 

[medicdan]

Karaya might have some interesting input as a PIO, but the whole cameraphone thing might be interesting.
My company has an "accident kit" with a disposable camera, crash reporting paperwork, etc, that I have no hesitation opening, and using the camera to document whatever needs to be documented. I would not use my personal cell phone camera...

 

[wyoskibum]

I didn't post this to be scolded about the shoulda dones, although yes I apologized and did the documenting. I was asking soley about the camera aspect.

I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was scolding you. Your instincts were spot on. It is indeed a very poor position for your company to put you in.

Anyway, you asked for our thoughts and if our company has policy. My reply was an effort to give others something to think about should they find themselves in a similar situation. I definitely was not trying to criticize you in anyway. Perhaps I was a little too direct in my response. Once again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

RE: Camera phone, it is an automatic suspension if we are caught using our camera phones on duty in my company.

 

[Tincanfireman]

+1 for notifying the supervisor / risk manager and let them handle it. I agree that using a cell phone could end up complicating the issue. Document thoroughly, especially times and who was notified when.

 

[emtbill]

I don't see the problem with using a camera phone during patient care. I routinely send picture messages to the hospital radio room of patient injuries as well as accident scenes. These pictures are then sent to the doctors and can aid in whether they want to call a trauma code or not. When I'm 15-20 minutes out from the trauma center this can save time in getting the trauma surgeons called in. We transmit patient EKG's all the time, this is really no different, nor is taking a picture to document the call as in the OP's scenario.

 

[Scout]

I don't see the problem with using a camera phone We transmit patient EKG's all the time, this is really no different,

Indeed, But using your own is a different ball game, If that is what your hosp/company want get the tool to do the job. Same as you were given the ECG, would you bring and use your own.

 

[BruceD]

The ED doctors take photos of nasty or unusual injuries for the ortho registrars and consultants and whatnot here; wonder if we could look at doing the same pre hospitally?

That is probably area dependent. In my area, only the supervising/attending ER physician can photograph any part of a patient and only after getting a written waiver signed by the patient and witnessed by another.

However, that being said, the plastics people seem to photograph everything that moves without prior permission...

 

[EMSLaw]

It is fuzzy... First and foremost, you should always apologize to the patient and their family. Admit that it was a mistake and an unfortunate accident. Do not try to minimize the incident or place blame on anyone else.

I have to admit, this part gives me pause. It's true that many lawsuits could probably be avoided by an apology, since all the patient or victim really wants is to be validated in their feeling that some wrong was done to them.

On the other hand, your apology would almost certainly be used as an admission if you were sued and went to court. To avoid going onto a tangent about this, admissions of parties to the suit are admissible, and are not considered to be hearsay.

So, your company's lawyer might not be terribly happy if you say you're sorry. Though as a human being, I know confession is good for the soul and all.

On the original topic - if the company wants pictures, they should provide a camera. You don't want to open yourself up to having your cell phone become evidence that you are under a duty to preserve.

 

[rescue99]

I have to admit, this part gives me pause. It's true that many lawsuits could probably be avoided by an apology, since all the patient or victim really wants is to be validated in their feeling that some wrong was done to them.

On the other hand, your apology would almost certainly be used as an admission if you were sued and went to court. To avoid going onto a tangent about this, admissions of parties to the suit are admissible, and are not considered to be hearsay.

So, your company's lawyer might not be terribly happy if you say you're sorry. Though as a human being, I know confession is good for the soul and all.

On the original topic - if the company wants pictures, they should provide a camera. You don't want to open yourself up to having your cell phone become evidence that you are under a duty to preserve.

Not only did Sasha and her partner act like the caring human beings they are by apologizing, accidents are exactly what insurance premiums are meant to cover. This case won't get anywhere if it does become a case at all. Gee whiz..how'd we get from pictures to prison?

Sasha..ya did good in a difficult situation

 

[Dominion]

I just wanted to come in here and increase my post count. I agree with most said above, I would not have taken the picture with a camera phone. If the company had a policy on pictures including written waivers and company issued cameras, depending on the severity of the injury I might consider it after consultation with the supervisor when I report the incident.

We have a very strict camera policy. If you're caught taking pictures for ANY reason you're gone.

However on the flip side, a Fire/EMS service locally has cameras on their trucks for random picture time. The only caveat to that is they can't take any pictures in which a patient is in more than a certain % of the picture and the patient may not have any IDing features in the picture (which includes the head, tattoos, peircings, the patients house with #'s, etc). It's used 99.9% of the time to take pictures of 'cool' wrecks and/or fires.

 

[DV_EMT]

here at the hospital.. we just started using a "camera kit" for the SWOT (sterile wound and osmotic therapy). So long as it is kept confidential and HIPAA compliant... I dont see the problem.