Assaults in EMS

[EMTswag]

well my partner and I had a knife pulled on us a couple days ago, so in honor of this I figured I'd pose this question: anyone else ever had a scene turned violent or been assaulted? how did you handle it?

 

[Elk Oil]

I've only been in one scene that turned violent, but it wasn't directed at us. A family member came home as we were evaluating the patient and a nasty fight broke out. We called for the police and they arrived right away and settled everything. We beat a hasty retreat as soon as it got ugly.

We had a patient the other day who cut himself up pretty bad with a knife. The police "secured" the scene, but we didn't know until we got there that the knife was still near by. We removed the patient and ourselves quickly. This patient was an obvious psych case and keeping things low-key and establishing a strong rapport was critical. The patient really liked one of us, so the rest of us deferred all the talking and interaction to them while we supported the effort.

Oh, there was also a time when a psych patient turned violent toward my partner during transport. He got up and started going after her. Luckily, I was watching in the rear view and hit the brakes. That ended it pretty quick, then we both restrained him for the rest of the trip.

 

[feldy]

While i didnt have a knife pulled on me, i was loading the cot and a pts drunk friend became violent and tried tipped the cot and then tried to knock me out.

While i was in a very vulnerable position as i would have dropped the cot, my partner came over and tackled him against the truck and activiated the emergency button. He ran off luckily b/c it took pd a few minutes to get on scene.

 

[firecoins]

I had 101 year old female "punch" my arm because she didn't believe I was take her home after being discharged. I wasn't too concerned about it.

I have had legit violent patients just never really directed at me.

 

[VirginiaEMT]

well my partner and I had a knife pulled on us a couple days ago, so in honor of this I figured I'd pose this question: anyone else ever had a scene turned violent or been assaulted? how did you handle it?

Back in the early 80's I was with a crew standing by for a monster truck rally. There was a fight involving two drunk's and were were called to assist the police who ad broken up the fight.

One guy was in need of attention so we were getting into the back of the unit when the other guy broke free of the police, somehow got a fire extenguisher(don't remember where it came from), and hit the guy we were woking on in the eye with it. I remember the area around his eye looking like hamburger meat.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Sadly I have lost count on scenes that turned violent.

If the violence is directed at someone else then we take off and call for PD. If the violence is directed at us we still try to take off but that's not always possible, that's when we defend ourselfs and then call for PD when we can. Our computers make a good punch shield and a good defense tool in general.

 

[Epi-do]

I was punched once, because I didn't move quickly enough when the unresponsive patient suddenly woke up as we were moving him from the chair to our cot at the dialysis center. And, once he was awake, he was fighting and there was nothing we could really do except keep him on the cot and try to keep all of us safe for the 5-10 minute drive to the ER.

It would have been nice for the dialysis staff to forewarn us that this particular patient gets violent when he becomes hypotensive or hypoglycemic before we went to move him and he woke up. We got him to the ER and guess what? Yeah, he was both.

 

[STXmedic]

Oh yes! Many times! Perks of working in the ghet-to Had many calls where I was very glad I was on the engine instead of the box, 4-6 on 1 comes in very handy

 

[abckidsmom]

I've found that how you act towards the people on the scene has a great impact on whether a potentially violent scene will go all the way to violent or will diffuse.

You attitude when you first walk into the scene needs to be one of respectful interest in the patient or people, a calm "what's going on today?" or "how can we help?" is a whole lot more helpful than any attitude at all. I know that a lot of people think that you have to be big and stern to control the scene, but I find that I get a lot more milage out of respectfully asking or telling people to do what I want them to do.

I learned a lot from the Medical Priority Dispatch EMD course about controlling people when you actually have limited ability to do so: tell them what you want them to do with a reason why they should do it. On the phone, this looks like, "Please answer my questions so we can send the right help for your husband."

On scenes this looks more like (if there's a potential fight brewing among people on the scene), "Just let it go for a little bit so we can help your mom/son/girlfriend/etc." or maybe "Calm down and let us do our job so we can get her some medicine/to the doctor/to the hospital."

I have known lots of medics who really enjoyed fighting people, and figured they were cool when scenes ran amok, so they went in with attitudes and would totally end up calling for PD backup times a week. I can point to just a handful of scenes where things got out of hand for me, and most of them were violent psych patients. One was a medical call where we needed to wait for a lift assist with a very sick asthma patient and the family lost patience.

It totally depends on your attitude, 98% of the time.

 

[MrBrown]

Assaults against Ambulance Officers are a rising problem here, in AU and the UK as well. It is mainly fuelled by alcohol and a societal change towards it now being acceptable to "have a go at the ambos"

Examples here include staff and vehicles being attacked with fists, bits of wood, axes thus ending up with black eyes, broken arms, bite marks, Brown has heard of one AO who ended up with a fractured skull.

In the UK it is a real problem and the LAS give their Paramedics stab vests.

How to control it? Well, one is not to enter the scene but thats a nice to have its not like they are going to admit their meth fuelled family member who is emotionally unstable and has an axe is at home so its a lot of talking to people and a little bit of run away fast if necessary.

 

[mycrofft]

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I knew a community health visiting nurse who was roughed up and her kit and car stolen. This sort of behavior was unheard of before the late Eighties, visiting nurses seemed magically immune.

As for me, a demented little old lady tried to cosh me with a call light button and had two canes and some metal flatware hidden under her mattress.

 

[Outbac1]

I have taken knives and guns from pts. I've helped police secure violent pts. The only time I've personally been hit was an elderly dementia pt kicked me in the face when I leaned over them to do up the leg straps on the stretcher.

The best defense is to be aware of your surroundings and don't put yourself in harms way. However crap happens and a smooth talking mouth is often your best defense and way out. Let the cops come and do their thing.

I don't notice an increase here but anything can change/happen.

Stay safe.

 

[MediMike]

It all depends on your geo location, but you do this long enough you get roughed up. I'm a big fan of running away. Got in the middle of things a few too many times, learned my lesson. I see something potentially violent brewing, I'm out. You're in the back of my rig and flip out? Guess what sir/ma'am, those two big doors at the back? Yep, they're unlocked! See ya!

 

[DarkStarr]

I have not experienced anything of the sort, but I've heard some stories. The only thing close I guess would be a heroine junkie who was fighting with us and then some psych who was intent on me raping her in the back of the bus (had PD follow and documented all of our times through dispatch).

I carry a Leatherman with a pretty sharp blade if needed (if the trip box won't suffice), and I also have a boot knife on my right. But I don't anticipate having to use either as PD are pretty good with responding with us, and the fact that I don't want to draw a weapon that the patient can use against me.

 

[the_negro_puppy]

The closest ive come is a heroin affected emotional individual who threatened to throw a glass bottle at us. People have a lot of respect for paramedics here- even if they are intoxicated or drug affected they dont give us too much grief. We could be standing next to a police officer, and they will call the coppers every name under the sun, but then respond politely when we ask them something lol

We also stay away from potentially unsafe scene.

 

[luke_31]

The closest ive come is a heroin affected emotional individual who threatened to throw a glass bottle at us. People have a lot of respect for paramedics here- even if they are intoxicated or drug affected they dont give us too much grief. We could be standing next to a police officer, and they will call the coppers every name under the sun, but then respond politely when we ask them something lol

We also stay away from potentially unsafe scene.

You have been lucky then. I've been on scenes where the cops are there and the patient is spewing nothing but insults at everyone including us and takes five of us to get them restrained to the stretcher.

 

[Shishkabob]

Yes, multiple times, and all that I can remember were due to a medical issue, such as a head injury, drugs, or psych patients.


One was a postictal seizure patient who took a swing at me, and proceeded to be tased multiple times. One was when I wrestled a person high on PCP- damn they're strong. The rest were all psych patients or diabetics.


Most get put down rather quickly with force or benzos.

 

[mycrofft]

Five is four

I carry a Leatherman with a pretty sharp blade if needed (if the trip box won't suffice), and I also have a boot knife on my right. But I don't anticipate having to use either as PD are pretty good with responding with us, and the fact that I don't want to draw a weapon that the patient can use against me.
I like the last sentence. Logic dawns. I'm still trying to figure out why they sell boots you can put a knife into. Sounds uncomfortable.

Speaking generically, the majority of dustups I'm hearing about are with mentally impaired persons; is there much honest adult expectation they will be deterred by the presence of a weapon? And with some illnesses and drugs, they WILL take that away from you and use it even if three people are whaling on them.

 

[DrParasite]

a good friend of mine/coworker was on a call once, for an EDP. 3rd floor of a home. I'm in dispatch, and hear this on the radio "start me PD, he has a knife!!!" thankfully said friend was also a deputy sheriff and broke the EDPs arm in 3 places to disarm him, so no injuries were sustained by the crew.

Often the best choice is to retreat until PD can get there, but that isn't always an option. And contrary to what some think, not every calls will get PD on scene first, despite that some systems get an officer first at every call.

I've been spit at, swung at, and had to deal with combative drunks, and one former linebacker who accidently ODed on his pain meds, and when he was given narcan came up swinging (this was while the two cops were in the other room), but once he realized what was happening, he calmed down. And i have been threatened more times than I care to count (thankfully, without anything coming of it).

Much bigger problem in the urban cities when you don't have PD on every call, or when PD are too short staffed, and you often have EMS going solo to call because no cops are available.

 

[Elk Oil]

a good friend of mine/coworker was on a call once, for an EDP. 3rd floor of a home. I'm in dispatch, and hear this on the radio "start me PD, he has a knife!!!" thankfully said friend was also a deputy sheriff and broke the EDPs arm in 3 places to disarm him, so no injuries were sustained by the crew.

Often the best choice is to retreat until PD can get there, but that isn't always an option. And contrary to what some think, not every calls will get PD on scene first, despite that some systems get an officer first at every call.

I've been spit at, swung at, and had to deal with combative drunks, and one former linebacker who accidently ODed on his pain meds, and when he was given narcan came up swinging (this was while the two cops were in the other room), but once he realized what was happening, he calmed down. And i have been threatened more times than I care to count (thankfully, without anything coming of it).

Much bigger problem in the urban cities when you don't have PD on every call, or when PD are too short staffed, and you often have EMS going solo to call because no cops are available.

When I worked in urban EMS, the thought of getting a cop at almost ANY call was laughable.

Now, I work in a rural service area where the cops aren't on duty after 11:00 PM in one town and in two of our towns, there are no cops at all.

I got pretty used to not working with the police! However, the difference between where I was and where I am is that here we DO NOT go on scene until the police arrive if there's is a known potential for violence (in the two towns without cops, we have to wait for the state police, and after 11:00, the one cop who's on call has to get out of bed and get dressed). We stage and wait until we get the all-clear. Regardless of how long that may take.