Age and EMS

[mycrofft]

Lately there has been foment and comment about teenagers in EMS. What do you think about ANY particular age group in EMS?
I see teenaged soldiers and we had fighter pilots in WWII barely out of thier teens, and bomber crewmen who were fresh out of highschool. When I see the film of the people manning the ambulances in Iraq and Syria and Israel, I do not see people under twenty at least. Most actually look as though in their thirties. In those sort of conditions they continue this way because it works better, sheer Darwinian selection of operations.

I think the energy and enthusiams of youth cause impulse and overshoot in medicine, that they should start with first aid, lifesaving and CPR, then get their education in anatomy and physiology etc. Unless closely monitored they are prone to getting in over their heads, which is a waste of future EMS folks as well as a waste of patients.

As for us old fogies, speaking for myself, I tend not to have the energy or quick recall of youth, but I can look at a patient and tell you things about him a kid simply cannot. I may be a little too sanguine about people dying, but there are things worse than death and and this makes me a better triageur than my more, shall we say, optimistic colleagues.

I don't want to discourage enthusiastic amateurs of any age, but they need to develop a background of knowledge and experience before running headlong with the big dogs and dogettes. More question marks.

What say you??

 

[Jaybro713]

Well I would fall into the "young gun" category as I'm only 20 but I would have to agree with alot of what you said. I definitely realize that I have like 0 experience and I find myself watching alot of the older members because I have so much respect for how they do their work.

I definitely notice differences in things that we do because they have been in this for forever where as I clearly have not been. I definitely think that experience trumps any classroom that I've ever stepped foot in. I've learned more by being in the rig than sitting in a classroom. So as for learning other things first that is where i disagree with you.

 

[KEVD18]

i struggle with limiting things to a number. there are mature 16 year olds that can handle being in an ancillary position and the are 30 year olds that arent mature enough to wash the rigs, much less work on them.

in ma, we require two certified people to a rig, and you have to be 18 to get a ticket. this gets us out of a lot of the immaturity involved with organizations like the youth corps. but there are plenty of immature 18 year olds too, so its not a guarantee. i do find it amusing that you can administer(and therefor posses, requisition and be responsible for) narcotics before you can buy a beer.

im against minors participating in active emergency services. a youth group attached to a fire or ems service that is limited to training and scut work to familiarize one with the equipment and what not is fine, but sending 16 year old kids out on a call is bad news. personally, if im in trouble and the person who shows up to help me isnt even old enough to be shaving im going to be one pissed off kevin.

 

[mycrofft]

"Doogie Hauser, Paramedic"?

I used to love my brand new E-2 Med Techs..."Bandage that, splint her, get that man out of hs chem suit NOW". Then when they had enough experience they started elbowing me out of the way to get to the patients, I knew it was time to bow out.

 

[Code 3]

I think the energy and enthusiams of youth cause impulse and overshoot in medicine, that they should start with first aid, lifesaving and CPR, then get their education in anatomy and physiology etc.

That's kind of how it is right now, no? You start off as EMT-B, which is basic lifesaving and CPR, then you advance to EMT-P, which requires college coursework in anatomy and physiology. All the Paramedic class where I live require possession of an EMT-B certificate and at least 1 year experience on an ambulance. You simply cannot go straight into a Paramedic program.

Unless closely monitored they are prone to getting in over their heads, which is a waste of future EMS folks as well as a waste of patients.

Again, I believe that this is how the system is curerntly setup (or at least in my area). Once you pass your classroom studies in Paramedic school, you are thrown into clinicals where you are monitored and assessed by proctors. Once you pass that, you still need to get hired and be monitored and assessed again by a FTO. If an FTO believes you are too impulsive and overshoot any form of medication or treatment, they will be more than willing to fail you on the spot.

As for us old fogies, speaking for myself, I tend not to have the energy or quick recall of youth, but I can look at a patient and tell you things about him a kid simply cannot.

This ability comes from great experience/knowledge and not age. Take a 35-40 year old EMT who is fresh out of school and see if he can do this. I see your overall point, but I think we shouldn't confused age with experience.


Overall, I think the main solution to this is not a focus on age, but a focus on increased education. The fact of the matter is that people need better education supplemented by great field experience. In order to get field experience, you need to get your foot in the door. When you increase the age in which people can join, you are in turn limiting the amount of time in which they can development.

 

[marineman]

I think Kev hit it right on the head. To me it has nothing to do with age rather maturity. I'm still a young pup compared to most on the forum but in general I get along better with those twice my age due to the average maturity level. I think it's great if kids know what they want to do and are able to start working towards it at a young age but to have them actually responding with a rig some of the things we see just aren't PG-13.

 

[piranah]

I'm 19 ive been a basic for a year and i am in my clinicals for my paramedic cert. I was a brand spanking new basic working a semi-busy 911 system with a paramedic. My paramedic has been teaching me for a year along with my being in medic school. she said to me she is proud and is comfortable in my skills as a basic and knowledge as a paramedic. I have seen some...well...interesting things so far in my carreer but nothing that has made me re-think my career. I love my job and i wouldnt trade it for the world...When i see something bad..i just look at it as though i can have a better outlook on my own life....i do know some people my age that couldnt handle what i do...but i also know some 40 yr olds who couldnt handle what i do....its all about how much you want it and if the job is right for you....and as far as ive seen..it the right career for me..

 

[tydek07]

I dont think it matters what age someone is, just as long as the person is mature and is willing to learn and act accordingly. There are some 16/17yr olds that would do better then some 30yr olds in this profession.

 

[Capt.Hook]

I dont think it matters what age someone is, just as long as the person is mature and is willing to learn and act accordingly. There are some 16/17yr olds that would do better then some 30yr olds in this profession.

Absolutely true! However, I will argue that many (not all) 16+s wouldn't sustain being able to handle a continual array of difficult issues. Nor should they HAVE TO! I believe it was posted recently on this site the same opinion in another thread.

Life has it's way of getting us ready for the "big one", either earlier or later. I feel if the select or unfortunate few have had to deal with it at an earlier age, then their more experienced brethren NEEDS to step up to help diffuse issues. Way to many folks get burned out at too early of age in our profession, be it volly or pro.

 

[Kendall]

I'd like to put in my two cents from the other end of the pond...

I'm 17 and have just recently been certified by the College of Paramedics (the provincial governing body in Alberta). I'm actively in the process of (hopefully) being hired by a rural ambulance service and I currently work for a standby company. I have volunteered with St. John Ambulance for 11 years in various capacities, including an independent patient care provider at the first responder level. I have 3 years experience with sports medicine and most recently have worked as an emergency sports therapist for a company contracted through the public school board.

While having a lot of experience behind me already, I recognize that I am 17 and newly accredited, respect the fact that I don't know everything and that I have a lot yet to learn and experience. I am very mature for my age, granted, but would anyone who's any older not be in the same situation? Everyone has to be the new guy at some point.

While working alongside paramedics and EMT's prior to my certification I've been asked by a number of practitioners if I was in medic school and if they could have me as a student or partner over their regular partner or current student. I believe its not a matter of age. Its a matter of competency, maturity and respect for the profession, coworkers and the patients.

I work with a much more experienced Paramedic on a regular basis. He is my sort of "mentor" in the field and has taught me an incredible amount. We have a certain respect for one another and I am very humbled by his willingness to accept me as a partner and a student on an ambulance and to help me through the certification process.

 

[Blacke00]

This discussion pretty much takes place in most jobs that require a "real" level of responsibility. Life and Death, etc.

...I have volunteered with St. John Ambulance for 11 years in various capacities...

Just out of curiosity, what were you volunteering to do at 6 years old?


Kevin

 

[Kendall]

Learning & observing and the occasional band aid. It was similar to Scouts but its more learning about healthcare and healthy lifestyles oriented.

 

[mycrofft]

Hmm. What I'm seeing here is mostly two things...

Younger folks espousing their readiness, and older folks making blanket statements. (That is a blanket statement of itself, but let it stand please????).
I think maturity experience training and philosophy are what we're looking at. I know many, most, folks my age and older (Permian Period) who are worthless in a scrape, and I had twenty year old med techs without their formal EMT's who would wade in and do something appropriate even if they were unclear at that point what the big picture was.
I remeber eating krytonite for breakfast when I was a younger EMT and lifeguard, but I had good mentors and I respected them.
If I could couple my "seasoning" with a twenty year old's energy and eyesight and my old feedstore muscles...B)

 

[JerseyEMT87]

I agree with what you say about how they should get some training i first but one thing i know is that you kinda grouped alot of people together saying teens go in over thier heads alot of times. I started my EMS career at 15 got my EMT by 17 and have taken A&P 1 and am 1/2 through a&p 2. I know that when I first started I wasn't as smart as the older members but I think everyone has to start somewhere. I think that when people start EMS later in life they know just as much as the younger kids but they have a easier time saying "hey listen I don't understand this" then the younger kids. I am 21 and I do agree with alot of the training you should have before you start but I don't agree that an age limit should be imposed or even that an age should come to play at all for things other then things like you can't start till 15 or 16.

 

[ride2k]

I just got my EMT recently, and I am 17. It took a lot of hard work, and my whole summer went into studying for it.
I also believe that it is not about age, but about how you can handle situations, and realizing when you need to ask for help. Everyone needs to start somewhere. I think it can only help when emergency medical personel are in shortage, that teens are able to step up and want to help others and their community.

 

[mycrofft]

ride2K I have little doubt I'd be ashmed to have you work for me

but as a generality, most kids (and I do NOT use "kids" as a pejorative, I was one year older than you and co-ran a serious candidate for mayor) just do not have the maturity and crust needed to consistently independently operate in EMS. It seems to be a blanket generalization and it is, but generally holds true. It's particularly frustrating because you are able to make the grade academically, but having trouble getting experience because you are not yet experienced. (Knowing life is a bi:censored:ch like that is the first sign you are getting matured).

I wonder if one could make a "laundry list" of specific things one can do better afer getting more years on your age, and the specific reasons?

Like, learning to weigh pt hx against objective s/s and scene observation? With time, you see through repetition that sometimes you have to weight hx above findings, and more often it is an artful balance between both requiring changes even during transport.
Next??

 

[Ridryder911]

I just got my EMT recently, and I am 17. It took a lot of hard work, and my whole summer went into studying for it.
I also believe that it is not about age, but about how you can handle situations, and realizing when you need to ask for help. Everyone needs to start somewhere. I think it can only help when emergency medical personnel are in shortage, that teens are able to step up and want to help others and their community.

Shortage in what? EMT's ? Really where? Actually there is an over abundance of EMT's.

Would you say the same thing if it was RN or P.A.'s, Surgeons? Sorry, there is no excuse allowable to let kids handle medical emergencies. This is a profession NOT a hobby nor first aid care!
If one wants to provide first-aid care then take and expect to perform that care. Medical profession requires more than just one that was able to read and pass a test. It also requires the ability to make rationale decisions and critical decision thinking skills that (on average) teens and even young adults cannot physically can make or perform. Again, scientifically proven.

R/r 911

 

[3oh3]

Shortage in what? EMT's ? Really where? Actually there is an over abundance of EMT's.

Would you say the same thing if it was RN or P.A.'s, Surgeons? Sorry, there is no excuse allowable to let kids handle medical emergencies. This is a profession NOT a hobby nor first aid care!
If one wants to provide first-aid care then take and expect to perform that care. Medical profession requires more than just one that was able to read and pass a test. It also requires the ability to make rationale decisions and critical decision thinking skills that (on average) teens and even young adults cannot physically can make or perform. Again, scientifically proven.

R/r 911

Not completely scientifically proven, there is not a completely conclusive test proving this, only correlation studies, however you are write when you say that the judgment is different, thats just biology though, your frontal lobe isn't fully developed making the process of judgment more difficult however not impossible, so assuming that as a whole it is not a good idea is false, under the supervision of a paramedic teen and young adult EMT's can be very capable.

 

[Sapphyre]

That assumes they're always being monitored by an older provider of higher education and certification. This is not necessarily the case. All providers need to be capable of being highly capable and using good judgement at all times while on duty, not just when their medic and/or sup is watching.

 

[Kendall]

Would you say the same thing if it was RN or P.A.'s, Surgeons? Sorry, there is no excuse allowable to let kids handle medical emergencies. This is a profession NOT a hobby nor first aid care!
If one wants to provide first-aid care then take and expect to perform that care. Medical profession requires more than just one that was able to read and pass a test. It also requires the ability to make rationale decisions and critical decision thinking skills that (on average) teens and even young adults cannot physically can make or perform. Again, scientifically proven.

You take a hard line. Let's remember though, that regardless of age or maturity, practitioners of all levels have to:
1) be accepted into an education program
2) successfully complete said education program
3) be successful on state/provincial and national registry exams
4) Be hired by an ambulance service and monitored by a Medical Director and a FTO.

There are young EMS providers out there, and they have jumped through the same hoops as any other practitioner to get there. I'd say that means a lot of people down that line have deemed the practitioner to be capable of handling the stresses of our profession at their level of care.