Working beneath my licensure, again.

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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OK, I'm doing first aid and hope it will develop into a longer and more-frequent gig. Trouble is, I am still bound by ethical and legal standards of my professional license. This has caused issues before, we will see how it works now. More on this later.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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Since an EMS license doesn't permit independent practice, is there really a legal standard implied by a professional licensure? Similarly, if there was one, then would a physician volunteering to provide first aid have to carry ALS gear because of the unrestricted license to practice medicine?
 
OP
mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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If hired to do first aid, I do first aid.

But, if I spot something I need to do to save a life and I am able, I'm obligated do it. If I spot something needing more attention, I must refer it. I am not allowed to allow patients to come to harm by acting as though I am only trained in first aid, and I have to act if there is harmful care being performed or contemplated. I have to also refrain from anything which might be interpreted as "moral turpitude", which includes knowingly letting crappy care be planned or conducted.

This can really torque off one's employer or co-workers.;)
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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This is a sticky point. My mother who has been an RN for 50 years and is still licensed wanted to volunteer in a hospital feeding and holding babies but this same issue came up. After talking to the hospital legal peeps they decided it wasn't a good idea.

I worry a bit about this on the aircraft. Right now as a basic my scope isn't really anything more than I can do as a flight attendant but when I finish my medic it will be. If someone on the plane goes down I'm not exactly sure what my obligation would be. Complicating things is that I will have a fairly comprehensive als medical kit available. Luckily there is a federal law specific to medical aid rendered onward an aircraft that allows providers to function to their highest level of training holding them liable only for gross negligence or criminal conduct.
 
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Veneficus

Forum Chief
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I worry a bit about this on the aircraft. Right now as a basic my scope isn't really anything more than I can do as a flight attendant but when I finish my medic it will be. If someone on the plane goes down I'm not exactly sure what my obligation would be..
If you are given extra money for your medical cert, I would interpret that as a duty to act. (but I am certainly not a lawyer)

If not paid extra, I cannot imagine you would be required to do anything beyond your flight attendant training. (whether you chose to or not would be a different matter)

Complicating things is that I will have a fairly comprehensive als medical kit available. Luckily there is a federal law specific to medical aid rendered onward an aircraft that allows providers to function to their highest level of training holding them liable only for gross negligence or criminal conduct.
I got to open a "Drs medical kit" on a transatlantic lufthansa plane. The only thing I used from it was the asa, but I have to say, it was more impressive than the total outfit of any ALS ambulance I ever worked on.
 

NYMedic828

Forum Deputy Chief
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If you are given extra money for your medical cert, I would interpret that as a duty to act. (but I am certainly not a lawyer)

If not paid extra, I cannot imagine you would be required to do anything beyond your flight attendant training. (whether you chose to or not would be a different matter)



I got to open a "Drs medical kit" on a transatlantic lufthansa plane. The only thing I used from it was the asa, but I have to say, it was more impressive than the total outfit of any ALS ambulance I ever worked on.
Do you need to prove to the flight staff that you are a physician prior to access? Or did you use your almighty brain to melt their minds?

 
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AtlasFlyer

Forum Captain
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Do you need to prove to the flight staff that you are a physician prior to access? Or did you use your almighty brain to melt their minds?
Protocol at my airline* was that we (F/As) had to ask for 'proof' of medical certification before allowing access to the FAA-required EMK (Emergency Medical Kit) onboard the airplane. We were only to allow access to the EMK to an MD or DO, though the less-equipped "First Aid Kits" we could give to any healthcare provider (a nurse, EMT, etc).


*My last time through a new-hire F/A class was spring of 2001 and my last recurrent was in the summer of 2002, so my info may be dated.
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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Protocol at my airline* was that we (F/As) had to ask for 'proof' of medical certification before allowing access to the FAA-required EMK (Emergency Medical Kit) onboard the airplane. We were only to allow access to the EMK to an MD or DO, though the less-equipped "First Aid Kits" we could give to any healthcare provider (a nurse, EMT, etc).


*My last time through a new-hire F/A class was spring of 2001 and my last recurrent was in the summer of 2002, so my info may be dated.
I'm not sure all airlines but many airlines now allow the medical kit to be opened by anyone with an EMT level training and up. Not sure when they changed this I was just flipping through my manual one day and there it was.

"Contents of either compartment are for use by medical personnel (e.g., MD,DO,DDS,EMT,PA,nurse, paramedic).

Check credentials before allowing a medical professional access to the kit. In the absence of documentation, the medical consultant can authorize a professional's access. Record the professional's name, license number, and address (or business card) in an Irregularity Report.

The medical consultant may authorize Pilots and Flight attendants to access either compartment of the EMK."
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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If you are given extra money for your medical cert, I would interpret that as a duty to act. (but I am certainly not a lawyer)

If not paid extra, I cannot imagine you would be required to do anything beyond your flight attendant training. (whether you chose to or not would be a different matter)



I got to open a "Drs medical kit" on a transatlantic lufthansa plane. The only thing I used from it was the asa, but I have to say, it was more impressive than the total outfit of any ALS ambulance I ever worked on.
Domestic kits are considerably less impressive I'm afraid. Still it has all the basic ALS drugs minus the narcs. I believe our newer kits have king tubes. Old ones had combi tubes.
 
OP
mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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"You don't need to see my credentials".
 
OP
mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
11,322
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Credentials?



I don' need no steenkin' credentials!
 
OP
mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Oddly, my employer has not asked for any credentials yet.

No, no more photos.:cool:
 

MMiz

I put the M in EMTLife
Community Leader
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I'm not sure all airlines but many airlines now allow the medical kit to be opened by anyone with an EMT level training and up. Not sure when they changed this I was just flipping through my manual one day and there it was.

"Contents of either compartment are for use by medical personnel (e.g., MD,DO,DDS,EMT,PA,nurse, paramedic).

Check credentials before allowing a medical professional access to the kit. In the absence of documentation, the medical consultant can authorize a professional's access. Record the professional's name, license number, and address (or business card) in an Irregularity Report.

The medical consultant may authorize Pilots and Flight attendants to access either compartment of the EMK."
I had to show my EMT license before they would unlock the overhead bin on Northwest in 2005. It was filled with drugs. Only used ASA and Nitro. I believe it had a combitube.
 
OP
mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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I'm bringing a few items of my own too. I regretfully bought some Dukall tape and self-adhereing wrap and they stink; however, I can make stink work.
 

OfficerEvenEMT

Forum Crew Member
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Protocol at my airline* was that we (F/As) had to ask for 'proof' of medical certification before allowing access to the FAA-required EMK (Emergency Medical Kit) onboard the airplane. We were only to allow access to the EMK to an MD or DO, though the less-equipped "First Aid Kits" we could give to any healthcare provider (a nurse, EMT, etc).


*My last time through a new-hire F/A class was spring of 2001 and my last recurrent was in the summer of 2002, so my info may be dated.
What about a Nurse Practitioner who specializes in ER care?
 

AtlasFlyer

Forum Captain
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What about a Nurse Practitioner who specializes in ER care?
Nope [not at the time]. MD or DO only, SPECIFICALLY.

I'm glad Mr. BaldGuy :)) ) has said that the rules have relaxed a bit on that. It seemed to me to be a bit hyper-militant to refuse access to the kit to someone like you say, with solid experience who could really help someone who needed it. Perhaps it was an insurance/liability issue on the part of the carrier, but I'm glad the rules have relaxed.

Not only were we told that we were under NO circumstance to give the EMK to anyone other than an MD or DO we would be fired, NO EXCUSES, if we violated this. The EMK was locked, so the kit was inaccessible without a F/A accessing it.

We were also told in new-hire school that if we (as F/As) were also EMTs or nurses or whatnot that we WERE NOT allowed to operate outside of the scope of what we were taught in new-hire medical training. The company could not protect us legality-wise if we did something outside the scope of the company's training. We had an RN in my new-hire class in 1995 and she was shocked to hear she was specifically forbidden from acting in anyway further than basic CPR/first aid.

I'm VERY GLAD to hear these militant policies are changing! It was particularly ironic as the very first stewardesses in America were required to be RNs... the RN requirement wasn't dropped til WWII as nurses were direly needed for the war effort.
 
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rwik123

Forum Asst. Chief
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Anyone have additional reading/sources on these flight EMK kits? Seems interesting. Would like to hear if there's any med control involved back on the ground.
 

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