Trouble with class/instructors

wannabeemtb

wannabeemtb

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Hi all, I'm a first time poster, so if this in the wrong place, I'm sorry. Also, if this question has been answered elsewhere, sorry for the double post, I searched, I really did.

My names Ben, I'm 30 years old, and I recently started an EMT-B class.

I'm having a problem with the class/instructors. We're studying Prehospital Emergency Care, Ninth Edition by Mistovich/Karren published by Pearson. We've got the main book, a workbook, and access to a website with practice tests and games. We're taking a test at the end of each module. We're told that 70% is a passing grade, that we can take a test again if we fail the first time, but if we fail twice, we're dropped from the class, and that these are DOT standards. We're also told that we must pass one module before being allowed to continue on with the next module. We're usually given a 10% bonus for correctly labeling a diagram, so far of the heart, skeleton, etc...

My issue is that text seems to bear little relation to the test. The rules seem to be against giving specific examples in this forum, so I'll refrain. I've taken 3 module tests so far, and passed all three. The first I got a 94 (104 with bonus), the second 78 (88 with bonus), and the most recent 76 (most likely 86 with bonus).

I study for a minimum of eight hours before every test. I'm present for every class. I fill out my workbook. I take the practice test online multiple times. I've spoken with two instructors so far about my performance on the test. I've voiced my concern that the text bears little relation to the test. I've been told their's nothing they can do, it's just the way that it is. When I asked for additional resources to study to improve my grade, I was referred to Barnes and Noble to read guides they had there.

I'm very frustrated with this advice from my instructors. Being told that's just the way it is doesn't offer any sort of actionable information that I can glean, perhaps it's just some inside EMS code that I've not been taught yet? The Barnes and Noble advice, while actionable, is a dead end. The study guides are designed for the entire test, and I'd really need something that was targeted toward the module test I was taking.

My question to any of you who've read this far is what would you do in my situation? I want to be an EMT. I want to pass my module test. I'm willing to whatever work is required to do that, I just have no idea where to start. I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks for reading all this, felt good just to get it out there if nothing else.
 
Could you describe what you mean by little resemblance to the material? There are numerous ways to legitimately ask a question that may not resemble necessarilly how the materal was taught, but expect students to connect the dots. For example, first degree vs 2nd degree vs 3rd degree questions (I'm having trouble thinking up examples from the EMT-B curriculum) vs scenario questions.

Also reevaluate how you're studying. Just because you spend 8 hours studying doesn't mean it's effective. For example, for me if I'm trying to learn concepts, I study best by just rereading the material ad nauseum until I can essentially predict what's on the next slide. If it's something like anatomy or drugs, then I make flash cards of the main points and go over those ad nauseum. If the problem is something like assessments, practice doing assessments on friends and family. Alternatively, see if you can shadow someone at a local clinic or do some ride alongs outside of class. If the problem is performing interventions, practice them on someone.
 
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A recent example would be a question about the most common threat to females in the 40-60 age range. The text clearly states that menopause and osteoporosis are common occurrences for females of that age range. It also states a list of other common occurrences, cancer among them, for all members of that age range. The test question asked for the most common threat to females in that age range. Choices were cancer, menopause, accidental drug overdose, and one other I can't remember. Cancer was the correct answer, but menopause was what I answered based on the text, as did every other member of my class.

I study best in the exact ways that you mention. I'm a little leery of field experience at this point, as we're still in the classroom and I know how often and how wildly those two can differ from one another. But, I suppose I could give it a shot. I was reading about EMT Attendants (CPR certified, enrolled in EMT-B class). That sounded interesting to me, and something I plan to look into further.
 
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Serious question. Why do you view menopause as a threat? If I said that suicidal ideation and puberty were common themes of preteens, would you list puberty as a threat? They might be related, but I find it hard to argue that a normal physiological change is a threat over a disease or disorder.
 
Serious answer, I don't view it as a threat. I gave the answer I did based on the text I read and the choices I had for answers. That's only one example, I thought the best one being how clearly the text and test differed from one another, also the fact that everyone in my class missed that question and gave the same exact answer I did.

My last test was 25 questions. I counted 11 questions I was sure of the answer on, the remaining 14 I made the best guess I could.
 
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something that helped me is that i re-wrote my notes by hand. Muscle memory works for me for both written and especially practical tests. Study with other people in your class and quiz each other during your breaks and outside of class. I found this to help a lot. I ended up meeting someone in my class and carpooled with them and we just went over the material. This will help you from both sides of the spectrum, learning from others and strengthening what you know when you teach it to others. I would urge you to do clinicals and ride alongs (im strongly believe in hands on experience as a way of learning) but be VERY careful relating them back to your tests becuase things may be different from when your "mentor" went through training and also somethings may come second nature to them that as a student you may think that they missed something where they didnt.

I hope this helps and good luck. Dont get down on yourself. It seems like you are not doing that poorly. If you really want it then you will do fine.
 
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I take notes by hand as well, my handwriting is atrocious, and the private company that I want to work for still uses written PCR's, so I use that as a way to practice my handwriting as well. However, I'm failing to see how getting muscle memory from text that differs from the test will help me when taking the test.

I don't feel that I'm doing all that well. My second and third test scores were within 10% of failing without a bonus. That's not doing well by any common standard.

I'll look into getting a study group together, but again, with text that differs so much from the test, I'm not confident of that being a viable solution.
 
sorry i didnt think that through when i was writing that. If possible, see if you can get a hold of maybe another text book. I used the Brady 11th ed. which i think is the newest version, it was very helpful in study...im not really sure if i can provide anymore advice but just ask around to your classmates get their opinions on the tests and utilize what they have to offer...or give another instructor a call (if possible even if it is at a different institution and see if they could help out). That is what i am doing now to retrain for my NREMT test (b.c. i am certified in a non NR state. I called a local hospital and I actually am training with the head medic there this weekend.

if you have any other questions feel free to send me a private msg or post here.
 
sorry i didnt think that through when i was writing that. If possible, see if you can get a hold of maybe another text book. I used the Brady 11th ed. which i think is the newest version, it was very helpful in study...im not really sure if i can provide anymore advice but just ask around to your classmates get their opinions on the tests and utilize what they have to offer...or give another instructor a call (if possible even if it is at a different institution and see if they could help out). That is what i am doing now to retrain for my NREMT test (b.c. i am certified in a non NR state. I called a local hospital and I actually am training with the head medic there this weekend.

if you have any other questions feel free to send me a private msg or post here.
 
Okay, good advice, thank you.

I've got a friend who works for Pearson, I'll see what he can do about getting me a copy of the book.

I'll call around to the local hospital and the other training location that I know of and see what I kind in the way of alternate instruction.

Thanks again.
 
as JPINV said, they usually want students to think out side the box and connect the dots, because sure the text might be right when it comes to facts but it might not be the right answer for the scenario, have you guys taken any Scenario Tests yet?
Try not to read too much into the answer, because once you do you start 2nd guessing everything

For Ex: You find a 34 year old male who is unconscious and is making a gurgling sound what do you do first?
A : Suction Airway
B: Head-Tilt Chin Lift
C: BSI/Scene Safety
D: Splint his left arm

Answer is: C
A few people who read into the question might think B because oh the scene should be safe if we are already next to the patient.

If it doesn't say that it happened in the question IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!

How far along class are you?

another tip: Listen to the Lectures, and ask questions during the lectures if it says something different in the book and contradicts it

do you remember anymore of the questions that you had trouble with?
 
I don't know what a Scenario Test is, so I assume no, we haven't taken any yet.

Thinking outside the box and connecting the dots are all well and good, except, what does that actually mean? In my experience, those things are products of experience, not a tool used to gain experience. Perhaps EMS is different, but since it exist in the same physical world as all other knowledge, I doubt this is the case. I realize that I'll need to critically assess a scene/patient and make the correct determination based on my training and experience. I don't have any trouble with that expectation. If that's what you meant by thinking outside the box and connecting the dots, fine, and if you add adapt and overcome to that list, you'll get exactly what my instructors have told me.

The only trouble is that NONE of that will help me pass the module tests. If I don't pass those, nothing else really matters.

We've just completed a month of classes.

Almost every question I've asked in class that deals with a difference between the text and the lecture is met with the same sort of obstinacy that asking questions dealing with the difference between the text and the test. At my class last night, while giving a lecture on blood pressure, my instructor printed Systolic on the board, and then followed it by printing Dystolic on the board. I said nothing, and neither did anyone else in the class, we've all pretty much given up attempting to get a correct answer.

No, I don't have any other examples of questions I had trouble with.
 
wannabeemtb said:
I don't know what a Scenario Test is, so I assume no, we haven't taken any yet.

Thinking outside the box and connecting the dots are all well and good, except, what does that actually mean?
Click to expand...

I'll give you two examples of test questions that I've gotten on recent test (note: I'm in medical school, so take that as you will).

Scenario/clinical integration example:
1. You're patient had an organ transplant 3 months ago and recently developed hyperglycemia, HTN, and tremors and has an elevated BUN and creatinine levels. Which drug is the patient on?
Choice A, B, C, D, E.

Connecting the dots:
2. A patient has been started on antibiotics for a gram negative rod and has developed a [set of side effects including unique one]. What is the mechanism of action for an antibiotic that you can switch to to avoid X side effect.
Choice A, B, C, D, E.

Question 1 is a fancy way of asking, "Which immunosuppressive has the following side effects?"

Question 2 is basically asking multiple questions with 2 pathways: "What antibiotic for gram negative rods has a unique side effect?" "what's the alternative to this drug?" and "What is the mechanism of action for the alternative?"

Alternatively, "Which antibiotic for gram negative rods doesn't have a common side effect?" "What is the MOA of said drug?"
 
For all those examples I'm assuming that you've learned the correct answer to the questions. My issue isn't getting to the question from the problem, my issue is actually getting the correct answer. Again, the text and the test differ.
 
Are you sure the answers to the test are not in the book? I would ask the instructor to point out the answer in the book for the question you got wrong about the greatest threat to females. If your instructor is unable to find the answer in the book that was on the test, than I would look into if someone is not following the DOT objectives you should be covering on either the test or the text. Text or Test...
Either way if thats the case it would be your instructors fault.
With all that said I bet your instructor can find the answer to your test question in the your text if you ask.... but you never know
 
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why is menopause a greater threat to women than cancer?
i think your thinking the wrong way...what is the question asking? of all those things, as an emt, what should you be most concerned about? I think this is another reason why people fail the NREMT so often.
you have to stop and read the question to know which answer is best. sometimes theres more than one RIGHT answer...but which one is best for the question asked.

id love to help you if i can...just post somemore (similar) questions either here or PM me.
 
I just finished my EMT-B course and just received national and state certification. I was surprised with the tests we were given and, as stated before, had to think outside the box. I must say at this point that I noticed several students in my class begin dropping after the first few tests, some dropped toward the middle of semester. By that time, the serious students were still there.

With that said, here is how I did my course-work. (American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons 9th Edition Care & Transportation of the Sick & Injured) First, I read all of the chapters regarding what we were studying. Second, I answered all of the questions in the workbook (look up the answers in your text to match the workbook if you question them). Third, I typed out all the questions with just the correct answers from the workbook after I answered the set of questions. And, finally, I printed out the questions with the correct answers and that was my study guide. It worked for me. A lot of work, but well worth it.

Also, the NREMT exam is more difficult than any test we were given in our class. You have to think outside of the box and really know your stuff. You can't memorize study guides to pass it, you have to know it. Just keep studying your text and think about why it says what is said. Good luck and I hope this helps.
 
When you take registry, you are going to have questions like the one you listed about the greatest threat to females age 40 to 60. Think about the question. As a previous poster stated, you have to think about it as it relates to your job as an EMT. Menopause may be listed in your text as the most common "occurrence," but it's something that every woman will go through and for all intents and purposes, not really a threat. Also, not something you are as likely to deal with as an EMT as some of the other choices. I know this doesn't affect your original issue (with the tests being so different than the textbook) but you are going to have to train your brain to seek out the answer that is "most right" for registry. And many of the questions aren't going to be verbatim from a textbook, you'll have to pull the facts together and form your own conclusion. Sometimes you will have four right answers and you'll sit there scratching your head wondering how you're going to narrow it down to one.

Now, about your class situation. The worst part about it, in my opinion, is that your instructors aren't really coaching you about why which answer was right after you take the quizzes. There was a learning curve during the first few modules in my class too, but our instructors went over the quizzes with us, answered our questions until we were satisfied, and trained us to understand that questions weren't necessarily always going to have textbook answers. It is a fault of your program that your instructors aren't willing to do that with you, especially if so many in your class are getting the same things wrong.

My EMT class ended up being like a tight little family. We made an email list the first day, formed study groups, and we still keep in contact with each other. I don't think this is a rare occurrence with EMT class groups. Do you think your instructor would give you contact info for someone from a previous class that successfully completed the class and registry? Or pass your contact info on to them? That could potentially be a very valuable resource for you, even if it's just exchanging a couple of emails about what worked and what didn't. I know that I would be glad to talk to a current student from the program I went through, if it could help them be successful. Also, try to get a study group going. It really helped me to go over the test questions that I thought had crazy answers. For your situation, if nothing else, it might help you all to discuss the situation and come up with a unified front so that when you (as a group) talk to your instructor about the issue, you're all on the same page.

Another suggestion I have would be to visit your instructor one-on-one during office hours. Sometimes it's easier to work with instructors about specific issues outside of the classroom.

I hope that something works out for you, I wish you the best of luck with it.
 
I'm swearing off commenting on these, (after this one).

Brushing aside all other maybes and could bes:
1. Can you get some experience before you take the NREMT?
2. Challenging the instructor is dicey, challenging the quality of the instructor's class is best done as you drop it at the business office. Instructors put lots of work into their presentations (even if sometmes it is wasted effort) and can be very defensive.
3. I keep saying regurgitate then get through the course, but that presumes some ability to get past the concrete and to recognize the principles illustrated by them.

So, don't start knife fights with the teacher, think, maybe get another book to triangulate (and don't waste time looking for a deal, go get it done), and see if you can get some hands on with a mentor.
 
Test questions should be written to draw out the depth of a student's understanding. Measuring understanding by using the levels (Bloom's levels of learning) of learning as a guide for writing tests helps students know where they're at IMO. The proper use of distractors and playing on words is about the only way to achieve that in a multiple choice setting. The more distractors, the more challenging the question. It requires one to understand what the question wants based on how much understanding of the material a student actually has. It is equally vital that the material being used be validated (ie.DOT objectives) and measured annnnnnd....cross checked to the text in use. Even more vital, it requires a decent educator to know what tests are supposed to do. They aren't meant to confuse. They're meant to measure!

Hint: The closest I have come to a NR test generator has been Platinum Testing.
 
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