Transporting of narcs

Brittanyemt

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So I currently work for a bls company. I am assigned to a cct rig. Sometimes, management will have an emt and a nurse starting out of 2 different stations. Meaning, the emt will have to meet the nurse at another station with a fully stocked rig. Including narcotics. I have done some research as far as an emt transporting narcs, but it’s really a grey area. Does anyone happen to know a little more?? TIA!
 

Colt45

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Your narcs are locked up and tagged so I doubt it would be a huge deal for you to drive the rig to pick up your partner. Obviously administration is limited to BLS for you, but I don' think transport is a huge deal.

I don't know the exact law and it probably changes with location, but I highly highly doubt this would ever even be an issue for you!
 
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Brittanyemt

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Your narcs are locked up and tagged so I doubt it would be a huge deal for you to drive the rig to pick up your partner. Obviously administration is limited to BLS for you, but I don' think transport is a huge deal.

I don't know the exact law and it probably changes with location, but I highly highly doubt this would ever even be an issue for you!
 
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Brittanyemt

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Your narcs are locked up and tagged so I doubt it would be a huge deal for you to drive the rig to pick up your partner. Obviously administration is limited to BLS for you, but I don' think transport is a huge deal.

I don't know the exact law and it probably changes with location, but I highly highly doubt this would ever even be an issue for you!

Thanks for the reply. I am from ca, and a lot of nurses and emts are very hesitant. Yes they are double locked. But everyone of course, has a different opinion. I also tried looking in my county protocols.. Grey area as well.
 

Colt45

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Thanks for the reply. I am from ca, and a lot of nurses and emts are very hesitant. Yes they are double locked. But everyone of course, has a different opinion. I also tried looking in my county protocols.. Grey area as well.
Maybe something you could ask administration about? If it' kind of a big thing between your co-workers right now I'm sure management has an answer!
 
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Brittanyemt

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Maybe something you could ask administration about? If it' kind of a big thing between your co-workers right now I'm sure management has an answer!


Lol management has no answer. They say just do it. They don’t really care what happens if and when the DEA gets a hold of you. I just hear they would have a field day. More so just knowledge for myself if I ever get caught in this situation. And people come to me, and I don’t have a right answer for them either. Thanks again for you help!
 

VentMonkey

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You’re seriously worried about transporting sealed narcotics on your company’s time, in a safely, secured, and locked place? Wow.
 
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Brittanyemt

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You’re seriously worried about transporting sealed narcotics on your company’s time, in a safely, secured, and locked place? Wow.

No one asked for your rude comment. And it was a question. I’m not the one with a problem. I wanted to gather other opinions on this. Sincere opinions.. not rude.
 

VentMonkey

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No one asked for your rude comment. And it was a question. I’m not the one with a problem. I wanted to gather other opinions on this. Sincere opinions.. not rude.
That is my opinion, sincerely:).

Let me ask you this: how do you think those narcotics got to your service in the first place?

What people do not know is one thing, but just about every service I know of is fed by speculators, and water-cooler opinions. If you cannot find anything after doing your own research except it being a gray area, what does that tell you?

If there is no policy in play at your particular service, and you’re seriously that concerned, then talk to your administrators about implementing one. In a pinch we have narcs brought to our base by EMT’s when the supes are backed up; safe, locked, and double-sealed.
 
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Brittanyemt

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That is my opinion, sincerely:).

Let me ask you this: how do you think those narcotics got to your service in the first place?

What people do not know is one thing, but just about every service I know of is fed by speculators, and water-cooler opinions. If you cannot find anything after doing your own research except it being a gray area, what does that tell you?

If there is no policy in play at your particular service, and you’re seriously that concerned, then talk to your administrators about implementing one. In a pinch we have narcs brought to our base by EMT’s when the supes are backed up; safe, locked, and double-sealed.


Yes I completely understand what you’re saying. Like I said, I am not the one with the problem. I just constantly hear the same complaint over and over again. So I figured I’d look into it myself, and maybe ask a question or 2. Even admin says it’s jot supposed to happen but does anyway..
 

akflightmedic

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Methinks the DEA has more pressing concerns such as the "war on drugs" and all the recent legalization all over the country to keep them busy. Far more interesting things out there than them spot checking a random marked ambulance with on duty staff transporting sealed, double locked, minute supply of narcs. Wowsers....I think the issue is stemming more from people trying to find ways to A) be a douche to their employer B) not have to do these shuttle runs (slack in their role) or C) both of the above.
 
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Brittanyemt

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Hands are off narcs.. only transporting to and from station. Although without medic or nurse. To me it doesn’t seem like a big deal. I don’t know the code to any of the locks, so therefore it wouldn’t be my problem if I did happen to get stopped on random.
 

NPO

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Let's think about the other people who transport narcotics:

Tow truck drivers
Freight delivery drivers
Postal carriers
Ambulance administrators

There's not a problem with transporting them. Just using them.
 

DrParasite

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You’re seriously worried about transporting sealed narcotics on your company’s time, in a safely, secured, and locked place? Wow.
She's not the only one, as this questions has been raised at my former place(s) of employment, by both EMTs and Paramedics.
I think the issue is stemming more from people trying to find ways to A) be a douche to their employer B) not have to do these shuttle runs (slack in their role) or C) both of the above.
Considering many agencies explicitly say "EMTs are not allowed to touch the narcs" can you blame them? The medic or nurse has to have them on their possession at all times, etc. So if you tell an EMT "take these narcs and give them to paramedic A" and it runs contrary to the whole "only paramedics can do anything with narcs", these types of questions occur.

We had an issue where only the paramedic supervisors would replenish used narcs. so if you had a night where only an EMT supervisor was on (we usually ran with 2, but minimum staffing for them was 1), what would you do? Our medical director and agency director made the decision: since supply replenishment is an operational issue, not a clinical issue, you don't need to be a paramedic to replenish narc; any supervisor could do it, provided the same level of documentation was performed. He used the same analogy: the UPS guy isn't a paramedic, and he is delivering the drugs to you..... how is that any different than the non-ALS supervisor giving you a replacement vial?
 

Tigger

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Crap we send wheelchair drivers to the hospital to pick up cases of fentanyl and versed. The narcotics will not spontaneously combust if there isn't a medic/RN nearby. They're locked in safe, should be more than sufficient. I don't think you will find a reference permitting this practice as there isn't really much to permit.
 

Carlos Danger

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Generally speaking, there is no problem with a non-RN transporting controlled substances for legitimate purposes. Happens all the time, all over the place, as has been pointed out.

The short answer is this: if it weren’t permitted, your company would not have you do it. In order to get and keep a DEA CS permit they have to jump through all sorts of hoops surrounding the logistics of purchasing, transporting, storing, and accounting for these drugs. Your agency has a lot more to lose than you personally do if they were knowingly having you break the law.

I think you can trust your management on this one.
 

Doomedtheory

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I know near me the ambulance switches BLS als and providers depending on the call. Narcotics are always on board. AEMT and below just trained don't go near them. Don't touch them. Don't tell anyone they are there
 

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