Toradol

d_miracle36

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Would the community give me some info on this drug? When do you prefer to use it prehospital? Is it generally safe for any musculoskeletal pain? I know I'm vague about it but just unfamiliar and looking for some veteran preference. Thanks.
 

Anjel

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Would the community give me some info on this drug? When do you prefer to use it prehospital? Is it generally safe for any musculoskeletal pain? I know I'm vague about it but just unfamiliar and looking for some veteran preference. Thanks.

We don't have it pre hospital. The hospitals around here love it though. It is a mild NSAID used for strains, sprains and stuff like that, must drug seekers seem to be "allergic" to it. In the hospital it is usually given IM or IV.

It is more for mild to moderate pain.

I can't speak for it's use pre hospital, because we just carry morphine, and fentanyl.
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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It's a NSAID like Aleve or Tylenol but more effective. I've been told and read that it is as effective as some narcotic agents for certain types of pain. I've seen it used with good effect specifically on kidney stone pain that morphine didn't touch. I've also heard it is used in cases where people are former addicts and refuse narcotics. Some medics will give it to patients they suspect of drug seeking behavior.
 

Veneficus

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It's a NSAID like Aleve or Tylenol but more effective. I've been told and read that it is as effective as some narcotic agents for certain types of pain.(musculoskeletal) I've seen it used with good effect specifically on kidney stone pain that morphine didn't touch..

This.


Some medics will give it to patients they suspect of drug seeking behavior.

Not this.
 

bigbaldguy

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Veneficus

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I didn't say I agreed with it just that they do it.<_<

But you typed it out so well, I figured I would just use your work and point out what I agreed with and what I didn't.
 

TheLocalMedic

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I've also heard it is used in cases where people are former addicts and refuse narcotics. Some medics will give it to patients they suspect of drug seeking behavior.

We have a few well know drug seekers in our area, so some of the medics keep some small saline flushes in the narc cabinet and they make a big deal out of drawing it up into another syringe with a 3 way stopcock and slowly delivering it IV. They'll say, "This isn't morphine, you won't feel it right away, but you should feel better in a little while." If they ask what the "drug" they're getting is, the medic replies that it's Nor-Malsaline Sodium Hydrochloride. Most of the time it works, too. ;)
 

usalsfyre

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We have a few well know drug seekers in our area, so some of the medics keep some small saline flushes in the narc cabinet and they make a big deal out of drawing it up into another syringe with a 3 way stopcock and slowly delivering it IV. They'll say, "This isn't morphine, you won't feel it right away, but you should feel better in a little while." If they ask what the "drug" they're getting is, the medic replies that it's Nor-Malsaline Sodium Hydrochloride. Most of the time it works, too. ;)

Because who needs ethical behavior...
 

TheLocalMedic

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Because who needs ethical behavior...

:rolleyes: Well, like I said, other medics pull this one, not me... I'm actually a big believer in not withholding pain meds, but when you see the same guy three times a day for the same complaint for years and years, well... let's just say that certain system abusers, like fish, begin to smell after a while...
 

RocketMedic

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Anyone use it for headaches, or able to treat headaches/migraines?

For suspected tension headaches, new and acute exacerbations of muscular or skeletal injuries, and some soft-tissue pain, Toradol is awesome. I actually think its better than morphine for some things.
 

usalsfyre

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:rolleyes: Well, like I said, other medics pull this one, not me... I'm actually a big believer in not withholding pain meds, but when you see the same guy three times a day for the same complaint for years and years, well... let's just say that certain system abusers, like fish, begin to smell after a while...

Withholding pain meds is a wholly different, much more difficult issue.

Misrepresenting something as therapeutic when it isn't however, is massively unethical and we should call these people on it.
 

Arovetli

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There are some issues that arise with Toradol. It can interact poorly with patients on long term NSAIDS, ACE inhibitors, with renal impairment, the pregnant or the elderly.

It is not appropriate for a possible surgical patient.

It is not to be thought of as a general prehospital alternative for narcotics, however it has its' uses and is highly effective in the right application.
 
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Arovetli

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Anyone use it for headaches, or able to treat headaches/migraines?

Due to the limited drug selection in the box, for truly sick migraine patients I find a cocktail of diphenhydramine/zofran effective.
 

TheLocalMedic

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Withholding pain meds is a wholly different, much more difficult issue.

Misrepresenting something as therapeutic when it isn't however, is massively unethical and we should call these people on it.

:wacko: okay Mr Grumpypants. So what's your answer? Just give everyone who asks for it a healthy dose of morphine? Yeah, that sounds like it would go over real well. Massively unethical...ha.... you know what's massively unethical? Calling 911 at a minimum of three times a day, each time with a different complaint, for the rest of your life and demanding morphine and pooping on the gurney if your morphine demand isn't met.
 
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d_miracle36

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:wacko: okay Mr Grumpypants. So what's your answer? Just give everyone who asks for it a healthy dose of morphine? Yeah, that sounds like it would go over real well. Massively unethical...ha.... you know what's massively unethical? Calling 911 at a minimum of three times a day, each time with a different complaint, for the rest of your life and demanding morphine and pooping on the gurney if your morphine demand isn't met.

I think I would give the morphine. It would be better than them pooping on my cot
 

usalsfyre

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:wacko: okay Mr Grumpypants. So what's your answer?
Excuse me for getting a bit upset when I see jack@ssery such as this. Is it OK for your lawyer to engage in unethical practices? Your accountant? Physician? If not then what makes paramedics special?

Just give everyone who asks for it a healthy dose of morphine? Yeah, that sounds like it would go over real well.
Why not? How in Hades do YOU know if the patient is in pain? What skin is it off off your nose? Are you qualified enough in addiction medicine to diagnose an addiction problem vs legit pain? If it's a system abuser, see below.

Massively unethical...ha.... you know what's massively unethical? Calling 911 at a minimum of three times a day, each time with a different complaint, for the rest of your life and demanding morphine and pooping on the gurney if your morphine demand isn't met.
Perhaps your system should look into ways of dealing with system abusers BEFORE this becomes a problem rather than at the site of the call. The appropriate time to make these decisions is NOT at bedside. Get a hold of MedStar in Fort Worth for a good program.
 

Arovetli

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Do you not carry phenergran? Or is it not preferred?

Do not carry. Rough on veins, concerns over extravasation necrosis and case studies of accidental arterial administration resulting in limb loss.

There were a couple local incidents a while back that resulted in area hospitals pulling it.

I do not agree with lying to a patient regarding medication administration vs. Saline placebo.
 

fast65

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:wacko: okay Mr Grumpypants. So what's your answer? Just give everyone who asks for it a healthy dose of morphine? Yeah, that sounds like it would go over real well. Massively unethical...ha.... you know what's massively unethical? Calling 911 at a minimum of three times a day, each time with a different complaint, for the rest of your life and demanding morphine and pooping on the gurney if your morphine demand isn't met.

Sorry, but I'm going to agree with usalsfyre on this one. It's HIGHLY unethical to engage in such behavior. The argument of whether or not it's ethical for the "system abuser" to engage in behavior you condemn is irrelevant, they're not expected to be ethical, we are. Be proactive and find a way to deal with system abusers in an ethical way or treat them like a first time patient, there's no middle ground for pseudo-treatments that compromise the integrity of our profession. I have never, and will never falsify my treatments...but I guess I value a good nights sleep more than some others.

As far as the original topic, we don't carry Toradol at my current agency, but during my clinicals I gave it quite frequently for patients with kidney stone pain, seemed to work rather well.
 
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