Rialto Medics refuse to enter SNF, Claiming Unspecified COVID law.

MEDicJohn

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https://www.ems1.com/investigation/...facility-to-administer-care-eIZMK0Fl4emOlVRq/


Rialto Fire Medics refused to enter SNF claiming that an unspecified COVID law prevented them legally from going in. Patient was in cardiac arrest and had to be wheeled out by a body cam wearing PD unit.

IMO, these guys are screwed if they can't provide any written proof of law stating no enter. Even if there was a law I would be entering and administering care.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Probably some lib-Democrap local ordinance.
 

Rano Pano

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The irony is this department parades itself as being progressive, and achieving high ROSC %.
 

Comfort Care

Forum Probie
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Wow, there are definitely specific policies in place that prohibit visitors from entering healthcare facilities. We don't allow anyone in our ICU/ED unless it's end of life. The Quality of care that some of these Fire Based agencies in San Bernardino is second class. Used to run calls with these guys.
 

CCCSD

Forum Deputy Chief
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Wow, there are definitely specific policies in place that prohibit visitors from entering healthcare facilities. We don't allow anyone in our ICU/ED unless it's end of life. The Quality of care that some of these Fire Based agencies in San Bernardino is second class. Used to run calls with these guys.
These aren’t visitors. They are MEDICAL providers in an emergency.
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
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The irony is this department parades itself as being progressive, and achieving high ROSC %.
When we finally dumped the autopulse to replace it with the lucas (we were one of the very early adopters of the AP and they were a few years past end of life), my zoll rep started lecturing me "don't you even care about the science". I stopped her right there and said "Rialto's zoll-sponsored, non peer-reviewed study is NOT science, there are several retrospective studies looking at tens of thousands of patients that show no difference between the autopulse, lucas, or manual CPR".

That was the last time she talked to me..
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
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We issued N95s as standard protection to all staff. As a result I could justify not banning all visitors... yet. But when community prevalence is too high, the risk is there for the patients and you have to act. Same practice is flu epidemics.
 

CbrMonster

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They cited a law that was just a suggestive safety protocol, which was to mitigate exposures as much as possible by removing patients from enclosed spaces when possible(“when” not every time)

These guys hopefully will loose their job


There has been a lot of talk in my fire station about how ******** this incident was
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Did you bother to read the link before posting this zero effort statement? Take politics elsewhere.
I read about it before it was posted here. The article I read said it was a "local requirement". And most of the requirements, mandates, etc. do come from the group I mentioned.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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And most of the requirements, mandates, etc. do come from the group I mentioned.

Which are just that. A requirement or mandate is not a law. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about arbitrary mandates they do not go through the congressional process. Not a law. Now department SOG's/SOP's are a different thing. However, I don't see any agency inhibiting a response to a SNF or private residence for a medical emergency.

My department had a policy in place for responses to SNF's where it was 1 person going in to limit the crew as a whole, unless the paramedic needed extra hands.

Also, I was ignorant and didn't read the article. Merry Christmas BTW.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Which are just that. A requirement or mandate is not a law. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about arbitrary mandates they do not go through the congressional process. Not a law. Now department SOG's/SOP's are a different thing. However, I don't see any agency inhibiting a response to a SNF or private residence for a medical emergency.

My department had a policy in place for responses to SNF's where it was 1 person going in to limit the crew as a whole, unless the paramedic needed extra hands.

Also, I was ignorant and didn't read the article. Merry Christmas BTW.
I read about it initially on Tactical Sh*t.com
 

Tigger

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I read about it before it was posted here. The article I read said it was a "local requirement". And most of the requirements, mandates, etc. do come from the group I mentioned.
Did they tell the fire department not to go inside and treat patients in cardiac arrests? Please provide a citation.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Did they tell the fire department not to go inside and treat patients in cardiac arrests? Please provide a citation.
T,
What I read basically quoted the medics saying they weren't allowed to go inside and the pt had to be brought out to them. There wasn''t any thing specific quoted. I believe this incident was also on Police1.com
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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T,
What I read basically quoted the medics saying they weren't allowed to go inside and the pt had to be brought out to them. There wasn''t any thing specific quoted. I believe this incident was also on Police1.com
And was that actually true?

Here's a hint: No.


As for the state law given as a reason by paramedics for not entering the facility - it does not exist. The first responders may have incorrectly cited an April 2020 memo advising them to reduce their exposure to the virus.

This is not about a political party preventing caregivers from entering facility.
 

Jim37F

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I don't even think it's written down anywhere as an official SOG, much less law, but we do have the guideline here of "Try to bring the COVID patient outside to the fresh air to treat them".

HOWEVER

That does not mean we refuse to go in. Even when Dispatch tells us it's a known COVID positive patient, or at a facility with known COVID cases, we will dress up in isolation gowns and goggles and masks and all that, one guy will still go in to get an initial assessment. If can, complete vitals and assessment with only the one guy in the room, but if not able to (say the patient is bed bound or otherwise unable to move, with the specific understanding of Cardiac Arrest being included) we call in the rest of the crew and treat as normal.

Heck, for the most part, even in our SNF's, we've kinda mellowed out on that, and will all least go in and the "canary" go into the room by themselves with the rest of the crew outside if need be... and that's really only known COVID patients, otherwise we've largely moved back into just walking in and trusting our PPEs (and vaccines for those of us who got them) and largely treating calls like normal.

So even with that guideline in place, I just cannot fathom sitting outside the front door and refusing to go in ESPECIALLY when told this was a cardiac arrest.... that's just so unacceptable, quite frankly unimaginable with any of the guys/gals here would even realistically think to pull such a move.
 
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MEDicJohn

MEDicJohn

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So even with that guideline in place, I just cannot fathom sitting outside the front door and refusing to go in ESPECIALLY when told this was a cardiac arrest.... that's just so unacceptable, quite frankly unimaginable with any of the guys/gals here would even realistically think to pull such a move.
This is pretty much where I was going with this post. Even if there is a "mandate" stating no enter, Arrest me. I know what im there to do and it isn't sitting outside while a patient is in cardiac arrest.
 

CbrMonster

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This is pretty much where I was going with this post. Even if there is a "mandate" stating no enter, Arrest me. I know what im there to do and it isn't sitting outside while a patient is in cardiac arrest.
Definitely shows a lack of character in their parts.
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
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Bet they wouldn't refuse to go into a burning building because it's too dangerous..

At the end of the day, sometimes you have to put your big boy panties on and go to work. You signed up to take care of sick people in dangerous situations, well here it is.. earn that paycheck.

As someone earlier mentioned, you can't profess to be an godlike EMS department and then give a Busch League pedal car racing team effort..
 
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