reporting police brutality

etacalpha

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I am paramedic student in MO. I have been tasked with the assignment to decide ethically what I would do in the situation that a hypoglycemic person was believed to be intoxicated and the beat with an asp presumably for self defense both before and after being restrained. At the time in this situation the officers are not aware of any medical issue and are overly confident pt is just drunk.

Pt was hit in head several times causing 3 open hematomas as well as in the upper arm and posterior thigh. pt was aggressive and belligerent but is now unresponsive to pain with gurgling respiration after "being subdued".

My question is not of treatment or what decision to make as that is for me to decide but do any of you have any protocols for reporting such an event or any first hand experience of something similar?
 

rescue1

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If it's for self defense, why would we be reporting police brutality, regardless of whether the pt has AMS due to intoxication or a medical issue?

If you seriously believe the patient was intentionally and maliciously beaten by the police, I'd inform my supervisor unless my agency had specific SOGs for that kind of thing.

Be careful about this though...a reputation as a "snitch" isn't going to endear you to local police.
 

JPINFV

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Be careful about this though...a reputation as a "snitch" isn't going to endear you to local police.


If I think that the police crossed the line, then the last thing I'm worried about is being labeled a snitch. Would you refuse to report a nursing home that you thought was abusing a patient because you didn't want a "reputation as a snitch"?
 

Handsome Robb

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Hypoglycemic patients can be really aggressive. I've only had one that was a real issue and luckily the FD showed up as he was fighting with my partner and myself and they helped restrain him, after he got some sugar and woke up a bit he was a super nice guy and was very apologetic about what happened. "I always get that way when I'm low."

I wasn't there for your situation so I can't comment on how I would handle it. I'd be interested to know if he's unconscious now because his BGL finally got low enough after him wrestling around with the police or if it was, in fact, from the trauma. If you think something was handled wrong make sure you go through the correct channels. If not you could get bitten in the *** by it later.
 

VFlutter

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If I think that the police crossed the line, then the last thing I'm worried about is being labeled a snitch. Would you refuse to report a nursing home that you thought was abusing a patient because you didn't want a "reputation as a snitch"?

Totally agree. It goes along with that "what happens on the truck stays on the truck" mentality....total BS. It depends on the situation and if the patient actually did act in a threatening manner but I would report it and hope the officer gets some education about AMS during medical emergencies.


What part of Missouri? If you don't mind me asking
 

rwik123

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The ASP baton is indeed a lethal weapon, but if I remember correctly cops aren't trained to strike the head with the baton. If there going for head strike, they might as well shoot them because it's both deadly force. Aren't baton strikes supposed to be directed to extremities and to force compliance?
 

VFlutter

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Aren't baton strikes supposed to be directed to extremities and to force compliance?

That sounds right to me, I usually see them directed at knees or arms. I watch a lot of cops :cool:
 

JPINFV

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Any impact weapon can be a lethal weapon, which is why this dude (note small wound on elbow)
Mannys-Boo-boo.jpg


has been formally charged with murder for turning this dude...

271990-kelly-thomas.jpg


into this...

kelly-thomas-police-beating.jpg


Of course being caught taunting a schizophrenic homeless dude prior to delivering a beating that led to the death of the subject is a good way to lose any support.

Video cued up to the important part. NSFW language. NSFW violence (the entire homicide is caught on tape).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fs4iZtvYZg&feature=youtu.be&t=14m34s
 
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Handsome Robb

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Aren't baton strikes supposed to be directed to extremities and to force compliance?

Yes, but with someone who's actively fighting things don't always land where they are aimed for.

People always ask about arming ambulance attendants. The only thing I could possibly see being an option would be an ASP. With that said, I still don't think we should carry them but that's another topic for another thread that always ends up locked anyways haha.
 
OP
OP
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etacalpha

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To clarify this is an assignment on ethics and purely hypothetical as far as I know. The asp is only to be used on thigh and meaty portion of the arm, doesn't always work that way.( Had to be certified to carry asp as guard in CO and AL.)

At no time in my opinion should any, let alone several officers use an asp on any restrained suspects as stated in this assignment. see Graham vs Connor and Johnson v. Glick as far as use of force and suspects with medical issues.

I don't have any questions on the ethics or what should be done just curious as to any procedures already in place for such an incident and who may have had something similar in career.

Another question I am trying to research is if there is anything stating the mandatory reporting of abuse of any mentally incompetent persons?
 

PVC

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My question is not of treatment or what decision to make as that is for me to decide but do any of you have any protocols for reporting such an event or any first hand experience of something similar?

I am not a lawyer and have not extensively researched this topic.

The offence you might could be charged with is called Misprison of Felony.

18 U.S.C. § 4 : US Code - Section 4: Misprision of felony

"Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony
cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not
as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other
person in civil or military authority under the United States,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three
years, or both."


This is not about whistle blowing but following the law. I don't think you have to file charges but you surely have to report it. Make sure your PCR is impeccable because you very well might be going to court.

You can be sure that if the patient files a complaint or charges you will be in the suit as well so I would cover my butt.

On the flip side, In another life we patched up winos in the drunk tank all the time. The only report was the PCR. The difference is that we did not actually witness the abuse.

This is not about whistle blowing but following the law.
 
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VFlutter

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Those cops in the video sound like a bunch of surfer frat boys... Dude, dude, dude. So professional
 

Medic Tim

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To clarify this is an assignment on ethics and purely hypothetical as far as I know. The asp is only to be used on thigh and meaty portion of the arm, doesn't always work that way.( Had to be certified to carry asp as guard in CO and AL.)

At no time in my opinion should any, let alone several officers use an asp on any restrained suspects as stated in this assignment. see Graham vs Connor and Johnson v. Glick as far as use of force and suspects with medical issues.

I don't have any questions on the ethics or what should be done just curious as to any procedures already in place for such an incident and who may have had something similar in career.

Another question I am trying to research is if there is anything stating the mandatory reporting of abuse of any mentally incompetent persons?



This is from Maine, we also are required to report child abuse.

ADULT ABUSE
(Title 22 MRSA, Chapter 1]A, Subsection 3477)
Reasonable cause to suspect,
when, while acting in a professional capacity, an ambulance
attendant, emergency medical technician, paramedicsuspects that an adult has been abused, neglected or exploited, and has reasonable cause to suspect that the adult is incapacitated, then the professional must immediately report or cause a report to be made to the department.
 
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Bullets

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The ASP training indicates initial strikes are to the meaty parts of the limbs. Biceps thighs calves forearms. Should increased force be required strikes should be directed art the joints. Strokes should never be applied to the head neck sternum or spine

Speak to your supervisor and document all injuries
 
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Sandog

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This is from Maine, we also are required to report child abuse.

ADULT ABUSE
(Title 22 MRSA, Chapter 1]A, Subsection 3477)
Reasonable cause to suspect,
when, while acting in a professional capacity, an ambulance
attendant, emergency medical technician, paramedicsuspects that an adult has been abused, neglected or exploited, and has reasonable cause to suspect that the adult is incapacitated, then the professional must immediately report or cause a report to be made to the department.

I am sure most states have similar law. Cop or not, abuse is abuse, and you must report it.
 

Handsome Robb

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I am sure most states have similar law. Cop or not, abuse is abuse, and you must report it.

Agreed. I'm sure the laws vary from state to state though.

Here we have no obligation and under patient privacy laws cannot report domestic violence, even if the patient tells us their injuries are from such an event, unless they request a report be filed. Then we call PD and the patient fills out the report, not us, although you and/or your chart are more than likely going to be subpoenaed if the case goes to court.

OP I'd google-fu "obligation to report laws" for your state to get the exact legal verbiage for your assignment.

Edited because I fail at grammar.
 
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Kevinf

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A few things that make this much clearer:

Hitting while your subject is in restraints is generally a no-no.
Hitting in the head/neck area (let alone several times) is a no-no.
When multiple officers are present take-downs by body mass is generally preferred to beatings.

All of those makes it worth reporting for further investigation by the proper channels.
 

Urbanems

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I am paramedic student in MO. I have been tasked with the assignment to decide ethically what I would do in the situation that a hypoglycemic person was believed to be intoxicated and the beat with an asp presumably for self defense both before and after being restrained. At the time in this situation the officers are not aware of any medical issue and are overly confident pt is just drunk.

Pt was hit in head several times causing 3 open hematomas as well as in the upper arm and posterior thigh. pt was aggressive and belligerent but is now unresponsive to pain with gurgling respiration after "being subdued".

My question is not of treatment or what decision to make as that is for me to decide but do any of you have any protocols for reporting such an event or any first hand experience of something similar?

I know this isn't the Textbook answer or the morally correct answer. But if you encountered this in real life, I'd probably just keep it to yourself. Unless they literally beat a man to near death for no reason, I would just keep your mouth shut and go on with your business. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but sometimes you gotta pick and choose your fights, and getting an officer fired, and a bunch of media on the PD isn't my thing.
 
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