Report Finds that Privatizing Houston EMS would Save Money

[Fish]

Report claims privatizing EMS will save money, FD claims studies show that privatizing EMS does not save money. What say you?

One thing is certain, we are talking about a lay off of 1,800 approx. Fire Fighters and if I had to guess a cut of around 80mill for EMS operations and another 80mill for payroll from the Fire Depts. budget(Once again this is just a guess looking at services a third the size of Houston's budget)

http://www.emsworld.com/news/10626279/report-houston-should-privatize-ems

 

[Shishkabob]

I say that it takes 2 brains cells to realize that if an agency can operate strictly off the money that comes in, and never charges a city a subsidy, it saves that city money, regardless of private, public, or fire.

 

[shfd739]

Wow. I bet the city wouldnt do it.

Privatizing will save money- Id like to see how the FD is saying it wouldnt. What study is that taken from?

 

[shfd739]

I say that it takes 2 brains cells to realize that if an agency can operate strictly off the money that comes in, and never charges a city a subsidy, it saves that city money, regardless of private, public, or fire.

Or as Ive seen private services do is ask for a small subsidy. There is still a large savings to the city.

The city requires tight response criteria and strokes out a subsidy check that is much smaller than what the previous exspense was. Money saved and service is preserved.

 

[tssemt2010]

i dont see many FF getting laid off, they all rotate between the fire truck and ambulance anyways so i dont see 1800 people getting laid off, i would prefer houston to privatize its EMS anyways, most of the HFD guys i have met do not enjoy the ambulance and patient care has suffered because of that

 

[Fish]

i dont see many FF getting laid off, they all rotate between the fire truck and ambulance anyways so i dont see 1800 people getting laid off, i would prefer houston to privatize its EMS anyways, most of the HFD guys i have met do not enjoy the ambulance and patient care has suffered because of that

The 1800 number I got from a HFD employee, there would be lay offs that is unavoidable. you cannot cut EMS completely plus a fire fighter for the truck without performing some sort of lay off

 

[Fish]

Wow. I bet the city wouldnt do it.

Privatizing will save money- Id like to see how the FD is saying it wouldnt. What study is that taken from?

I have no clue, i just read in an article that the FD was claiming studies show that it doesn't save money.

 

[Shishkabob]

1800 laid off?! How many do they have employed? Holy cow. No wonder it's a waste.


Edit: Just saw on Wikipedia... 4,000 employed. What the heck? 15 per station, per day... even if you take out ancillary staff, that's still like 10 per station per day, and that's being generous on the ancillary side.

 

[Fish]

I only have two questions, where can we find the report to read it ourselves and how will the city take the advice given in this report?

 

[Fish]

1800 laid off?! How many do they have employed? Holy cow. No wonder it's a waste.

No clue, but they have like 110 stations so minus 1 fire fighter from each truck off of each shift plus minus the staff for 60 ambulances and ALS vehicles and EMS supervisors and i guess that is where he got the number?

 

[Shishkabob]

If they can trim nearly half their department by taking people off of things that staff less than half their equipment... they clearly have too many to begin with.

 

[bigbaldguy]

i dont see many FF getting laid off, they all rotate between the fire truck and ambulance anyways so i dont see 1800 people getting laid off, i would prefer houston to privatize its EMS anyways, most of the HFD guys i have met do not enjoy the ambulance and patient care has suffered because of that

I have to agree that to the extent I've had dealings with HFD EMT's and medics most of them act like working on the ambo is just an unpleasant task that they have to get through before they graduate to playing with hoses. Fire fighters generally don't like being medics. I don't blame them. I like working on the ambo and if I had to be a firefighter to do it I would probably be a halfhearted FF because it's not what I would want to be doing.

Bear in mind when I say most of them I'm referring to those I've had direct contact with not with HFD EMS in general but I imagine it's pretty much the same city wide.

I think privatizing Houston EMS is probably a pipe dream. If it did happen I imagine that with the exception of those being laid off the rest of HFD wouldn't be to sad about losing EMS.

 

[socalmedic]

@linuss, according to the HFD website they have 104 stations (1-105 with 1 closed) and 4 shifts. 4000 / 104 / 4 is approximately 10 per station per day including overhead. it appears that the majority of their stations are multi resource stations so that makes sense.

I cant see 1800 loosing their jobs if this proposed plan goes through. a few hundred tops if anyone gets laid off. I am sure there are already hundreds of vacancy's, my citys FD has 23 stations and 76 vacancy. in addition to the retirements that are to come. and i am sure this will be a "tiered" roll out meaning that ems will go first, then the extra guy on the truck, then the extra guy on the engine. if they do it right they could cover all the lost positions with retirement incentives.

 

[Shishkabob]

Maybe going from 24/72 to 24/48 with the resulting cut in staffing could solve a big chunk of their issues...

 

[medicsb]

I was under the belief that HFD paramedics, though cross-trained, generally only did EMS, and that it wasn't until relatively recently that some of them could rotate onto fire apparatus. Also, what is so bad about HFD EMS? There's been a decent quantity of research done within the Houston EMS system, and Dr. Ken Mattox (world renowned trauma surgeon for those who don't know who he is) has referred to them positively in regards to trauma.

Just curious.

 

[Fish]

I do not know a lot about them clinically, so maybe someone else can answer that for you. I was mainly concerned with everyones opinions on whether or not this would be a money saving change and although we all know the Union would fight it, will them or the City prevail if the city decides to privatize EMS?

 

[Fish]

I was under the belief that HFD paramedics, though cross-trained, generally only did EMS, and that it wasn't until relatively recently that some of them could rotate onto fire apparatus. Also, what is so bad about HFD EMS? There's been a decent quantity of research done within the Houston EMS system, and Dr. Ken Mattox (world renowned trauma surgeon for those who don't know who he is) has referred to them positively in regards to trauma.

Just curious.

As a side not, i would be more impressed with a Cardiologist referring to them positively or some sort of National EMS committee or Agency, Trauma is the easiest thing a Paramedic does and is rather hard to mess up and Houston gets a lot of it, so they are experienced in it.

 

[shfd739]

As a side not, i would be more impressed with a Cardiologist referring to them positively or some sort of National EMS committee or Agency, Trauma is the easiest thing a Paramedic does and is rather hard to mess up and Houston gets a lot of it, so they are experienced in it.

Even though this is harsh it's the truth. Trauma is simple. What is their current cardiac arrest survivial rate? How are the protocols and equipment?

Privatizing would be a potential positive thing for the citizens. By having people on the ambulance that want to be there the quality of service will improve.

Im afraid the union will squash anything that requires a reduction in manpower or giving up EMS. Even though a private can do it better.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Even though this is harsh it's the truth. Trauma is simple.

Really? I dare you to walk up to a trauma surgeon in a bar and say that.

 

[Fish]

I am not for anyone losing their Jobs, I know these HFD fellas have got families to take care of and no one wants to wish unemployment on another. But, Fire Depts. to it to themselves by not running lean Departments. And I know this comment will draw flack but, I am Anti-Union....... Why should the Union's opinion in this ever matter ever overide/trump what the Mayor/City Council and its Citizens want(a balanced budget) not just in this particular matter but ever!