Prayer and EMS

sojourner

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I am working on a term paper titled "The therapeutic value of prayer in the EMS system". Needless to say even though many paramedics pray on their calls and for their patients, I believe it should include "with patients" asked for, etc. I am also attempting to reveal the overall refusal to accept this as a true therapeutic tool by the medical community in the "leave God out until WE do all the great stuff we have to offer" mentality. I realize it's a wide and deep topic, but as I am presenting this for paramedic class, maybe just maybe the following classes may find some encouragement to consider this dimension of our true responsibility to so many patients who may see is as the last or one of the last people they will see on this earth.

I will need to locate evidence worthy of a term paper, i.e. studies, etc.

Any and all help welcome.
 

TransportJockey

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If my patient's family asks if they may pray while I am working on my patient, as long as they don't get in my way I'm ok with that, but I will not join in or lead them in it.
I do have the mentality of 'let me do my job and leave imaginary friends out of it'
 
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firecoins

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I don't pray with patients. I am not hoping for supernatural interventions. I am busy calling medical control for interventions I am likely to get. If the patient wishes to pray, than their ABC are probably okay for the moment.

I am atheist. I do not take part in religious ceremonies.
 
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Smash

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Amen!

(Haha, see what I did there? :p )
 

akflightmedic

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I do not pray or join in prayer either.

I need to focus on my job in order to save their behind if it is in that much danger. If it is not that severe which is most times, then they can do whatever they want as long as they do not touch me or try to involve me. When they do, I simply politely decline and endure their "look".

Besides, why fight or try to beg your way out of "the plan" simply because it is now Your turn to play your role. :)
 

CountryEMT-bGurl

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I agree with it! I pray everytime the tones drop! But then again, I also pray everytime I see a firetruck pass me, or hear sirens! I believe in prayer. And if I can multi-task enough to get the job at task done and pray as well, I will do so. I have no problem letting family pray next to the pt. while I am working. As long as it doesnt make for a hostile atmosphere for me to work in, then let them do whatever they need to do. That is part of their grieving process as well, to think they did everything that they could have done at the time. Cause if they can't pray, they have nothing else to do. Then they end up felling useless, and blaming themselves!

I say go for it!
 

reidnez

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Frankly, I think what you're describing is unprofessional. We aren't chaplains, we aren't there to provide a religious service. There is a difference between emotional support (which is appropriate) and spiritual support (beyond the scope of practice.)

If the family and the patient want to pray, by all means they should. If it calms the patient, great! All I'm saying is that it is not the provider's place to participate.

If you're going to pray with one patient, shouldn't you pray with them all? What if they're of a different faith and their beliefs are at odds with your own? Would you pray with that person, though your church might condemn it? It hardly seems fair to discriminate--but religion by its nature is discriminatory, and that's why it has no place in public life. This holds especially true if you work for a public agency, and wear a uniform which identifies you as an agent of government. Couldn't your praying with a patient, while you are in uniform and on the job, be interpreted as a state endorsement of religion? How would your service feel about that?

Sure, prayer has demonstrable physiological effects. So does meditation by an atheist. So does taking a placebo. That doesn't make any of those a valid medical intervention. Otherwise, we'd dispatch priests instead of EMT's.
 
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wyoskibum

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I seem to have that effect.......

Seems like my patients really start praying once I walk in the door....... :D
 

Dominion

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I don't involve religion or politics in my day to day job. If someone asks my opinion on either topic I politely decline. Same with asking me to pray. I once worked with a guy who would ask me to pray every morning before shift with him. I would decline and he would loudly hold a prayer before starting the truck up and leaving the garage.

The biggest concern here is do you advocate praying with people of all faiths or just the one you personally identify with. What would you do if you showed up on a scene and a muslim asked you to pray with him or a pagan asked you to perform a prayer or quick ritual/blessing with them. This is the problem with the plan as far as I see it. As someone said religion is inherently discrimatory. How do YOU plan to address that? Realize that even in the deepest of the bible belt there are muslims, pagans, jewish, catholic, buddhist, etc.
 

Lifeguards For Life

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. That is part of their grieving process as well, to think they did everything that they could have done at the time. Cause if they can't pray, they have nothing else to do. Then they end up felling useless, and blaming themselves!

I say go for it!

Just as you describe saying prayers outside of church, the family does not have to be bedside to pray.

In the extreme example, If a dying patient reaches out to you, and asks you to pray would you deny them?

Each time I am on shift with a certain battalion chief, he asks us if we don't mind joining him in grace when we sit down to dinner. I myself am not religious, and as such have no obligation to praying with patients of varying faiths. To all of you claiming atheism, is your religious preference (atheism), that strong to deny a patient that consultation?

Many patients, dying or not, are scared, and I see joining them in a prayer as little more than psychological first aid.

As a previous post described praying as "I do have the mentality of 'let me do my job and leave imaginary friends out of it'", while i would not talk to a psych patient's imaginar friend, I find no harm in repeating a series of meaningless words, with a patient acceptable practice if they find condolence in it.

There is a thread on this site, with a study detailing worse outcomes in patients that know they are being prayed for.
 
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Nelg

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Myself, I don't think it works. If it helps the patient or family remained calm and it wouldn't hinder my work, go for it.

I'm an Agnostic more then anything. I don't know what's out there, but for me personally, I think that what I do in the present dictates where my actions lead to, not some omnipresent being.

All in all, if I had to lean on any religion, it would be more Buddhist. I don't see them starting wars because a person doesn't agree with there teachings, at least. (The religious teaching in itself, not an individual in the religion.)
 

TraprMike

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but for me, therefore, the pt.

I say a little prayer enroute to barn. something like, "Lord, help me made speedy, correct decisions".
and away we go.
 
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sojourner

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appreciation

I greatly appreciate everyone's reply so far and hope to get much more.

I realize we do procedures and administer drugs that have no science to prove long term success yet we still use them and if there is a God and the extensive battery of testimonies claiming healing and intervention from first person accounts means anything, that seems more science that we have in some cases. We administer Adenosine in hopes to slap SVT back down, often to no avail. Prayer doesn't seem any more out there and seems to have as much or more affect.

Obviously there is no clear way to know how to properly apply it. However I do know stress and anxiety attacks have been terminated via prayer and the arrhythmia associated with it. I'm just saying there's something there for those open to using it. They say there's no Atheists in fox holes... and that came from first hand observation in WW II.

Thanks again for any and every comment. It helps me get a feel.
 

Nelg

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I can't attest for anyone else, but from personal experience, I've only seen prayer calm someone down, but in terms of it helping out, never seen it do such. At least without human help.

I don't know if there is or isn't an omnipresent being, and I won't until i die, but I like to say I'm more of a "want to control my own course" more.

And here I go steering the thread away from the original topic.
 

berkeman

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I'm not religious (but my ex-wife and kids are), so prayer's only component IMO in my work is for comfort between the Pt and their family/friends. I'm certainly not going to stop what I'm doing to join in, but it's interesting about the mixed emotions I had on a recent call.

As background, an incident a few years ago had me treating a serious trauma F Pt after a roll-over MVA with ejection. She was all torn up, but luckily had no obvious life threatening injuries. Multiple Fx and minor bleeding, but no immediate presentations of internal bleeds or increased ICP. But one of the bystanders made the idiotic comment, "Is there anything that you want us to tell your children?" To which I replied pretty curtly, "She can tell them herself." Stupid shellshocked bystander.

So on a recent call, my Pt was a 13 y/o F gymnast with a potentially serious C-spine injury from a fall in warm-up. As I was working on her, and her mom and friends were keeping it together pretty well, the mom asked her if she wanted to pray. I flashed back to the freeway incident, where the comment by the bystander was making the Pt stress out more than necessary, but this mom was mostly together, and I could sense that prayer was important to their family. So I said nothing and kept working quietly while they prayed together. It honestly felt kind of weird to have people praying over somebody that you're actively working on..... Hope she was okay (we don't generally get to know the outcome after they ride off in the ambulance).
 
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Melclin

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I am an atheist, so I obviously don't pray, and as a rule, I don't like it when people do. Especially in the medical setting, I find it vaguely offensive because people always seem so keen too chalk the wins up to god.

That said, if a pts family wants to pray while ambos work, I'm not ganna stop them (what would be the point? I'm not there to push my atheological agenda), but I would certainly have no qualms about interrupting or stopping them for information or if they are interfering in anyway with things that will actually affect the pts outcome.

That said if I'm sitting with a little old lady who's terminal and she wants me to hold her hand while she says a few hail marys before she shuffles off, then I'm not going to say no and hit her with a copy of the god delusion :p, so long as it doesn't interfere with any proper care, or take me out of my role too much (a six hour vigil is not going to happen). But, in regards to the OPs question, I see no benefit in it other than to avoid unnecessarily upsetting a dying person. And you are hardly going to be able to find empirical evidence to the contrary.

There are studies into the so called power of prayer, and I'm sure someone here can provide a link, but honestly, if you believe that it works, why would you look for study? A negative study will not change your mind (and be written off with an argument something along the lines of you can't use science to analyse god's will, god works in mysterious ways, etc), while a positive study will be shouted from the roof tops as evidence of god's influence in our lives and the power of prayer. So why bother looking for studies? You're better off with bible references.
 

ZVNEMT

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I'm fairly religious, but i have a job to do and i think God will understand if i don't stop and pray with my pt... besides, I kinda think that theres a good chance that if God were to intervene in any way, it would probably be through the professionals working on the pt and not in some spectacular miracle with burning bushes and doves flying and water turning to wine. I believe acts of God to be generally subtle, unnoticed, and impossible to prove.
 

dg5887

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Prayer doesn't always have to be a lifting up of words to God, you can also make actions your prayer. If one of us were to bring back a patient on the brink of death, would we be able to take credit for it? No. Our talents are not our own but are a gift from God. It would be wrong to take the gift God has given and claim it as our own. God has given some the gift of thought while others the gift of speech, some the gift of music while others that of art. We do not choose what we are talented at. God has called us to care for others, He put that desire into our hearts. He gave us the ability to learn and apply life saving measures along with the guts to do it. Not everyone is capable of doing this. If we accept this, continue to learn life saving skills to our utmost ability and apply it in order to give honor to God, then our hands become His hands and working on a patient becomes a living prayer. God love you!
 

Smash

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We administer Adenosine in hopes to slap SVT back down, often to no avail. Prayer doesn't seem any more out there and seems to have as much or more affect.
. I'm sorry, I don't like to be rude, but if this is truly what you think, then medicine is clearly not the career for you. We know exactly what percentage of SVT will revert (not 'slap down') and because of this we are not surprised at the small number we see who do not revert. If you want to run a trial comparing adenosine to prayer in reverting svt, well good luck to you and do let us know the outcome. In the meantime, leave patient care to those who can make rational decisions and go provide pastoral care somewhere else.

They say there's no Atheists in fox holes... and that came from first hand observation in WW II.
If 'they' truly believed in an interventionist god and the power of intercessory prayer, then 'they' wouldn't need foxholes at all, would they?...
 
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