Paramedic Courses Changing by 2013?

[Stephanie.]

I've heard by word of mouth that the nation will be changing the paramedic certifications, to where you have to receive a degree to become a paramedic.
I was told that this change will take place in 2013 and you will have to go to paramedic school. No more online classes or tech schools. And there will only be certain colleges that you can attend throughout the nation. Has anyone heard anything similar?

Since, they are trying to omit Intermediate, I feel it will be a lot harder for basics to become paramedics, especially with certain accredited schools. But I also think that basics skills will advance throughout the nation. Allowing the basic to maintain all airway or start IVs, and let the medics handle drugs.

Like I said this was just passed on by word of mouth, I was throwing my .02 in. I would like to hear if anyone else had heard anything.

 

[Too Old To Work]

Unless you have a good source for any of this, I'd completely ignor it. While there are going to be some changes to the scope of practice and the curriculum, I haven't heard anything even remotely like what you are saying.

Distance education is here to stay.

 

[reaper]

It is not that they are requiring a degree. NREMT will require all Paramedic schools to be accredited or they can not test for NREMT. This will exclude a lot of medic mills and on line schools that will not spend the time or money to become accredited. That will vastly improve the future of EMS.

 

[46Young]

My understanding is that it's up to the individual states to decide what they require for certification. Above that, it's really up to the employer. If enough require degrees to apply, it will then be the industry standard. Simple as that.

 

[Too Old To Work]

It is not that they are requiring a degree. NREMT will require all Paramedic schools to be accredited or they can not test for NREMT. This will exclude a lot of medic mills and on line schools that will not spend the time or money to become accredited. That will vastly improve the future of EMS.

Or, under political pressure from the private companies and fire service lobby, more states will drop the NREMT.

The problem is that other than a few well paid services, salaries are not high enough at most EMS systems to justify the increased costs.

With the economy as bad as it is, I don't see initiatives that will add to business or education costs really being all that popular.

 

[firecoins]

Accreditation is just a piece of paper saying the program covers what its suppossed to. The CUNY BMCC is an accreditted program. The CUNY Laguardia CC is not accreditted program. Their coursework is set by CUNY and the NYS DOH. It is exactly the same course work. Only difference is a piece of paper.

 

[medic417]

The quality online programs as well as the trashy diploma mills which sadly include some colleges will get certified. It takes a few thousand dollars and some paperwork. It is time consuming. Some schools will have to ad a few pieces of equipment to qualify. So accreditation and even NR pass rate prove nothing about the quality of education at a school.

 

[MrBrown]

Accreditation, once the IAFF gets its desired two places on the Board, will mean nothing (not that it means much now)

The NREMT has no licensing power whatsoever and thier tests are barely acceptable enough to not be called criminally inadequate.

So .... yeah

 

[46Young]

Accreditation is just a piece of paper saying the program covers what its suppossed to. The CUNY BMCC is an accreditted program. The CUNY Laguardia CC is not accreditted program. Their coursework is set by CUNY and the NYS DOH. It is exactly the same course work. Only difference is a piece of paper.

Yeah, I noticed that. I went to NY Methodist, which is accredited. But LaGuardia, which has an EMS degree is not? This accreditation thing just sounds like another money making racket.

 

[46Young]

Or, under political pressure from the private companies and fire service lobby, more states will drop the NREMT.

The problem is that other than a few well paid services, salaries are not high enough at most EMS systems to justify the increased costs.

With the economy as bad as it is, I don't see initiatives that will add to business or education costs really being all that popular.

One thing that hopefully would happen if non accredited schools are forced to close is that it will thin the supply of new medics.

Also, the fire service actually favors the NREMT. It may it easy for candidates to gain reciprocity. You can apply from anywhere, as long as you have the NR-P card. I was given a SC medic card when I moved from NY. I was given a VA card when I moved from SC. At one time I had P-cards from three states, with no testing required whatsoever. I haven't taken any recert exams in the 5 years I've been a medic, just the NYS original in 2005 and the NR-P.

 

[Markhk]

Interestingly, Oregon already does require that paramedics have at least an Associate's degree.

Per the DHS website,

http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/ems/certific/educate.shtml#paramedic

"For an EMT-Paramedic applicant submit proof that the applicant has received an associate's degree or higher from an accredited institution of higher learning the student must successfully complete all mid-course and final examinations and final practical examinations. "

 

[courtellis]

Heard somewhere

I heard that somewhere....my fire department said there were some changes coming, but I think it was more curriculum based. I have heard that at Ft Sam Houston you have to have an EMS Degree to be in the instructor programs.

 

[Ridryder911]

It is funny because this is NOT new. This has been discussed nationally for over 10-20 years now. It is those that want to demise and slow down the progress of EMS is raising questions and problems. Fear of change!

This is how rumors start and promote as gospel. National EMS Educators (NAEMSE) in cooperation and association with NHTSA agreed decades ago to change the route EMS education was going. After decades of the same crap that had been contracted out and continuously watered down each time it was published, it was decided to allow the educators design the programs.

It was over several years after meeting and designing the future outlook of EMS (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/agenda/execsum.html) it was decided that remove the way of teaching EMS from objective base curriculum to the traditional methodology of education. (Wow! no more monkey see.. monkey do?)

The NREMT which IS the largest testing agency for EMS and most acknowledge, and respected was part of the committee to decide and give advice of the future. No, they have no real authority per say; except many states utilize their testing as the license or certification authority; if not probably will soon due the expenditures and ability of reciprocity. Like it or not, that is just the way it is.

One of the bold moves that the NREMT did do (and should be applauded) was to require in the future that they would only test applicants graduating from an accredited school. (this affects Paramedic level only).

I have read the B.S. about accreditation. Again, I doubt very few have even read the requirements or truly understand what accreditation is about.

Myths vs. Reality.

Myth-one has have offer a degree to become accredited. All of California Paramedic programs are accredited, as well as many other Fire base and private EMS programs and not all of them are associated with higher education.

Reality- It does require the administrator or coordinator to possess at the least an undergrad or preferred graduate degree. (*allowance will be made that within 3 years, they will receive a degree)

Myth-Such programs are far superior than those that are not accredited No, but at the least those institutions have met the general underlying requirements. This means that they have a program...not just a class.

Reality- They are monitored. Clinical sites have a contract with institutions and students should be monitored by faculty, progress of students is closely monitored, follow up of post graduates of the program are performed to maintain quality.

Myth- the costs to become accredited is astronomical .What a joke... the accreditation process is a few thousand dollars. Now; to ensure that one passes and meets the accreditation is much more... but; if you cannot fund such a program to be able to meet the basic standards, the program should not exist.. either do it right or get out!

Really, would one want to go to a program that cannot even meet the basic standards?

Reality- We are the only healthcare that does not require the training and education to be accredited at a national level. It is a wonder, that Medicare and other payers pay EMS as much as they do.

Reality - face it.. it's here. Yes, unions will huff and puff, EMT's in their ignorance will whine and groan, all over advancing the profession.

EMS as a whole is a joke,.. why? Look at the base of it... What other so called profession would not want some credibility? .. Yep only EMS. If we can do it half arse...that's good enough!

R/r911

 

[FLEMTP]

Also, the fire service actually favors the NREMT. It may it easy for candidates to gain reciprocity. You can apply from anywhere, as long as you have the NR-P card. I was given a SC medic card when I moved from NY. I was given a VA card when I moved from SC. At one time I had P-cards from three states, with no testing required whatsoever. I haven't taken any recert exams in the 5 years I've been a medic, just the NYS original in 2005 and the NR-P.

Not always true. I applied for legal recognition of my MI & FL medic licenses in North Carolina. You cannot apply from anywhere with them. You have to be a resident of the state when you apply, or be affiliated with a NC EMS agency (for folks who live just outside the state but work IN the state)

Its been a pain in my ***!

 

[46Young]

Reality- They are monitored. Clinical sites have a contract with institutions and students should be monitored by faculty, progress of students is closely monitored, follow up of post graduates of the program are performed to maintain quality.

R/r911

No kidding. We need more of that. I've heard paramedic students bragging about all sorts of schemes. They would go into an ED for clinicals, a large ED, and have two different nurses sign of on different pages of their book. They simply change one date, and now they have 16 hours for the price of 8. Same thing by going between the main ER and the peds ER, which can be slow. They would tell the peds ER nurse that they were going to look for someone to stick and help draw labs on, when in reality they had a nurse or two evaluating them on the adult side. 16-24 hours for the price of 8. For the CCU, I've heard stories of going to the floor, attending rounds, and then getting signed off by the doc, who then disappears for much of the day. Then they can go downstairs and get a 2fer or 3fer as above.

Medics signing off on phantom intubations for their friends, crediting them for extra hours on the ambulance or letting them off early, as a few more examples.

 

[Theo]

Not always true. I applied for legal recognition of my MI & FL medic licenses in North Carolina. You cannot apply from anywhere with them. You have to be a resident of the state when you apply, or be affiliated with a NC EMS agency (for folks who live just outside the state but work IN the state)

Its been a pain in my ***!

Oh yeah, NC makes you jump through a few more hoops to get their license. My family is moving to NC in another year or so. I plan on setting up temporary residence at a family member's home in order to meet the requirements to get the NC reciprocity process started. That way, I'll have it in hand by the time I start sending out my resume.

It's a pain, but in a way I understand why they do it that way.

 

[Ridryder911]

No kidding. We need more of that. I've heard paramedic students bragging about all sorts of schemes. etc...

Amazing still today there are schools that do not provide preceptors (employed per school) within the clinical environment. Then we wonder why more and more hospitals are becoming difficult to obtain clinical sites?...

More amazing we do ..."hours".... instead of reaching objectives. Coffee house clinicals, those that students never respond or even see and perform are asinine. For example, just placing .."time".. in a student will usually get a "S" satisfactory or "O" unable to evaluate.. really? What good did that clinical do for that student?

We flood the market in regards to Paramedic training. Seriously, most states could do very well with just a few institutions teaching and rotating students through quality clinical training and exposure. Would it costs more? Yes; but would it not be worth the price to ensure students to be exposed to, see and obtain clinical experience? Setting around playing the X-box is nice for down time events but for education?... The same as a non-busy ER, ICU/CCU.. were they exposed to respiratory failures, and those with true coronary problems?...Were there instructors there to ensure they participated in patient care and met objectives.. or did the students sit and watch monitors and hide in the corner?

If we restricted the number of students entering and those exiting, with quality graduates, we could defend the right to increase salary and anything associated with the profession.

R/r 911

 

[terrible one]

It is funny because this is NOT new. This has been discussed nationally for over 10-20 years now. It is those that want to demise and slow down the progress of EMS is raising questions and problems. Fear of change!

This is how rumors start and promote as gospel. National EMS Educators (NAEMSE) in cooperation and association with NHTSA agreed decades ago to change the route EMS education was going. After decades of the same crap that had been contracted out and continuously watered down each time it was published, it was decided to allow the educators design the programs.

It was over several years after meeting and designing the future outlook of EMS (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/agenda/execsum.html) it was decided that remove the way of teaching EMS from objective base curriculum to the traditional methodology of education. (Wow! no more monkey see.. monkey do?)

Intersting post R/r 911.
Other than what you did post what sort of changes do you see in the near future?

 

[MrBrown]

Brown forsees absolutely no substantive, meaningful change and while Paramedics elsewhere in the world are out getting advanced degrees and practicing advanced prehospital medicine the US will remain in about 1990.

Its ok tho, I always did like the 90s.

 

[courtellis]

It is funny because this is NOT new. This has been discussed nationally for over 10-20 years now. It is those that want to demise and slow down the progress of EMS is raising questions and problems. Fear of change!

This is how rumors start and promote as gospel. National EMS Educators (NAEMSE) in cooperation and association with NHTSA agreed decades ago to change the route EMS education was going. After decades of the same crap that had been contracted out and continuously watered down each time it was published, it was decided to allow the educators design the programs.

It was over several years after meeting and designing the future outlook of EMS (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/agenda/execsum.html) it was decided that remove the way of teaching EMS from objective base curriculum to the traditional methodology of education. (Wow! no more monkey see.. monkey do?)

The NREMT which IS the largest testing agency for EMS and most acknowledge, and respected was part of the committee to decide and give advice of the future. No, they have no real authority per say; except many states utilize their testing as the license or certification authority; if not probably will soon due the expenditures and ability of reciprocity. Like it or not, that is just the way it is.

One of the bold moves that the NREMT did do (and should be applauded) was to require in the future that they would only test applicants graduating from an accredited school. (this affects Paramedic level only).

I have read the B.S. about accreditation. Again, I doubt very few have even read the requirements or truly understand what accreditation is about.

Myths vs. Reality.

Myth-one has have offer a degree to become accredited. All of California Paramedic programs are accredited, as well as many other Fire base and private EMS programs and not all of them are associated with higher education.

Reality- It does require the administrator or coordinator to possess at the least an undergrad or preferred graduate degree. (*allowance will be made that within 3 years, they will receive a degree)

Myth-Such programs are far superior than those that are not accredited No, but at the least those institutions have met the general underlying requirements. This means that they have a program...not just a class.

Reality- They are monitored. Clinical sites have a contract with institutions and students should be monitored by faculty, progress of students is closely monitored, follow up of post graduates of the program are performed to maintain quality.

Myth- the costs to become accredited is astronomical .What a joke... the accreditation process is a few thousand dollars. Now; to ensure that one passes and meets the accreditation is much more... but; if you cannot fund such a program to be able to meet the basic standards, the program should not exist.. either do it right or get out!

Really, would one want to go to a program that cannot even meet the basic standards?

Reality- We are the only healthcare that does not require the training and education to be accredited at a national level. It is a wonder, that Medicare and other payers pay EMS as much as they do.

Reality - face it.. it's here. Yes, unions will huff and puff, EMT's in their ignorance will whine and groan, all over advancing the profession.

EMS as a whole is a joke,.. why? Look at the base of it... What other so called profession would not want some credibility? .. Yep only EMS. If we can do it half arse...that's good enough!

R/r911

That was an outstanding reply, thank you!!