NY Paramedic shot in back of ambulance

ITBITB13

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Not sure how many of you heard about this, but long story short, a medic was shot by a patient in the back of his unit while transporting.



I’ve had patients turn combative on me, but not to this extent. What do you guys do to prevent situations like this?
 

CCCSD

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Not sure how many of you heard about this, but long story short, a medic was shot by a patient in the back of his unit while transporting.



I’ve had patients turn combative on me, but not to this extent. What do you guys do to prevent situations like this?
Full pt assessment. That head to toe isn’t just for injuries…
 

johnrsemt

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So you are doing a full head to toe assessment, for an ankle injury? that includes hands on every part of the patient?
Hands into the crotch? let us know how that works,
 

johnrsemt

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And that happening is scary as hell. Last time I found a gun on a patient was 30 minutes into a 45 minute transport going to a helicopter, when everything was done and I was trying to find ID, and medication list and Med hx. (hoping) trying to find out why my 76 y/o was unconscious.
Found ID and handgun, in his fanny pack
helicopter wouldn't fly gun, so I took pictures of it with ID, and took it back to the PD in the town we left.
 

DrParasite

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Full pt assessment. That head to toe isn’t just for injuries…
one of the rare times I agree with you 100%.
So you are doing a full head to toe assessment, for an ankle injury? that includes hands on every part of the patient?
Hands into the crotch? let us know how that works,
maybe not feeling up his crotch, but I am going to palpate his pocketed areas for things that might hurt me. Esp if the call is for a "a disorderly person at the Funkey Monkey Lounge" I'm going to do my best to make sure there is nothing on the patient that will hurt me.

now, if my ankle injury starts reaching into his or her pants by his or her crotch, that's going to be a red flag, something I am going to pay attention to, even if requires me to stop life saving interventions until I can see their hands again.
 

CCCSD

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one of the rare times I agree with you 100%.

maybe not feeling up his crotch, but I am going to palpate his pocketed areas for things that might hurt me. Esp if the call is for a "a disorderly person at the Funkey Monkey Lounge" I'm going to do my best to make sure there is nothing on the patient that will hurt me.

now, if my ankle injury starts reaching into his or her pants by his or her crotch, that's going to be a red flag, something I am going to pay attention to, even if requires me to stop life saving interventions until I can see their hands again.
Yep.
 

johnrsemt

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Last patient that I flew to the hospital when they stripped him for surgery, (he was unconscious) an small .22 fell out of his crotch. Scared the crap out of the nurses, and we got called and chew out by the flight crew, who had been chewed out by the hospital: I asked the same question the flight crew asked the ED: Why didn't you search him?
 

Carlos Danger

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Not sure why EMS was even dispatched to a "disorderly person", or what makes you guys think that this disorderly person is going to be OK with you frisking him as if you are a cop and trying to take possession of his gun once you find it. Are EMTs even trained to pick up and handle guns? I'm not sure that's good advice.

Also, the Department of Sanitation has police lieutenants?
 

DrParasite

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Also, the Department of Sanitation has police lieutenants?
in NYC they do... they also have dress uniforms, a full command structure, and their own police department
 

CCCSD

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Not sure why EMS was even dispatched to a "disorderly person", or what makes you guys think that this disorderly person is going to be OK with you frisking him as if you are a cop and trying to take possession of his gun once you find it. Are EMTs even trained to pick up and handle guns? I'm not sure that's good advice.

Also, the Department of Sanitation has police lieutenants?
No one said “frisk”.
 

Carlos Danger

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No one said “frisk”.
How else do you describe doing a hands-on head to toe assessment where one is not warranted and then attempting to somehow deal with something you feel under the patient's clothing that you think might be a weapon?
 

CCCSD

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So you feel that patients shouldn’t be assessed, just because they’re drunk or not injured? That’s some slack pt care. How do you get away with documentation?
 

Carlos Danger

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So you feel that patients shouldn’t be assessed, just because they’re drunk or not injured? That’s some slack pt care. How do you get away with documentation?
Don't deflect from the topic by being being intentionally obtuse and implying that I said something I didn't.

I'll take the fact that you didn't answer my question to mean that you don't have an answer.
 

CCCSD

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I answered it. Do a PE. You find a threat, leave.
Not rocket science.

Whats so obtuse? You stated there was no need to do a PE or “frisk” as you call it, your words. I simply pointed out that was poor care. If you can get away with doing an eyeball PE, then that’s between you and EMS, not me. I’d surmise that’s poor pt care. I’d be correct.
 

Carlos Danger

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I answered it. Do a PE. You find a threat, leave.
Not rocket science.

Whats so obtuse? You stated there was no need to do a PE or “frisk” as you call it, your words. I simply pointed out that was poor care. If you can get away with doing an eyeball PE, then that’s between you and EMS, not me. I’d surmise that’s poor pt care. I’d be correct.
As you are well aware, in the majority of scenarios, palpating the patient's entire body over their clothing is neither necessary or appropriate - and does not constitute a "PE" anyway. What you were clearly implying in your first post was that this should be done routinely because it gives you the opportunity to detect a weapon, despite the fact that most EMS providers have zero training in what to do if they were to detect a weapon. You literally wrote "That head to toe isn’t just for injuries…".

If you want to frisk all of your patients under the guise of performing a "PE", more power to you. Just don't tell other people they should do the same and then act like you didn't say so when you are called out on it.
 
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