Non-EMT's being more involved on calls?

[spnjsquad]

Hey, I was just wondering: Do you think it's okay for riding members who are not yet EMT's to ask questions to the paitent? I was wondering because whenever I'm on a call, the person who is the leader of the call either lets me fill out whole run sheets and help with certian things such as oxygen administration (usually older members), or doesn't really let me do anything besides getting equipment and lifting (usually younger members). Also, I'm always afraid to ask about medications and pain and stuff like that because I feel that others will get mad since I am not an official EMT. What do you think? What would you let a member who is not yet an EMT do on a call? What would you not let them do? Just trying to get everyones opinions.

 

[DesertMedic66]

To each there own. There will be some EMTs/Medics who are fine with it and there will be ones who will not let you do it. The easiest way is to ask your crew before they go on a call.

And it depends, we only allow EMT or Medic students to ride along with us. If it's an EMT student I will let them preform any EMT skill.

 

[teedubbyaw]

If they are EMT students and there for a clinical, they need to be doing things at an emt level.

 

[Medic Tim]

Every place I have ever worked never allowed random ppl to ride along. Only students and sometimes someone ( media , visiting medics ,etc) students were expected to participate and run calls. The others were to observe only . Our system is a bit different though in that we have no volunteer EMS... We don't even have on call . All medics are paid career medics.

 

[lisha]

When I did my clinical, my FTO's allowed me to do whatever was in my scope of practice for what I was in school for (at the time AEMT, she even let me push drugs outside my scope of practice with her direct supervision). It really just depends on who trains you and what their willing to put in as a trainer to help you. If I trained someone, I would allow them to do everything within their scope of practice. You can't expect to be comfortable as a EMT if on one gives you the opportunity to feel comfortable and get hands on.

 

[STXmedic]

OP, are you referring to being an EMT student, or not a student and no EMT training?

 

[lisha]

If your referring to a non EMT training ride along, then no! They should carry equipment and that's it.

 

[OnceAnEMT]

OP, are you referring to being an EMT student, or not a student and no EMT training?

He said "yet", so my guess is he's a student going through clinicals. But I guess we'll see.

Liability comes into play a bit, naturally. If you have nothing behind your name and you're truly there because you volunteered to ride along, then it is probably best if you keep your questions to the crew and keep your hands to yourself. The same applies even if you are a student but these ride alongs are not official, school-scheduled clinicals. Now, if they are actual clinicals counting towards your hours and the like, then as mentioned before the best you can do is at the beginning of the shift talk to the crew, help them clean the truck after they finished eating the donuts you brought them AND the fire crew, and explain to them your goals for the day.

Personally, I was a bit slow with my clinicals. I wish my school gave us more time. I really wasn't 100% comfortable when I graduated. My first 2 calls I just watched and helped with labor-type stuff, and asked plenty of questions to the crew. Basically was Fire on a medical call (sorry Fire). But then I did oxygen. Then I did nitro. Then I did half a 12 lead to help out. Then I did all of that in one call. It all just kind of piles up, until you find yourself begging for more. Now, all that said, my preceptors were cool with that. I never at any point did anything under my own initiative without first asking simply because it wasn't my truck, I barely knew the crew, and of course I was still greener than green. But that's part of my learning style. To each his own.

 

[spnjsquad]

Guys I'm refering to someone who is currently in their EMT course, but thanks for the great answers though!

 

[Ewok Jerky]

There are too many variables that come into play. Best bet is to ask your crew at the beginning of the shift. On the way to a call don't be afraid to ask what the game plan is going in and what tey want you to do when you arrive on-scene.

 

[Tigger]

If you're in an EMT class I suppose I don't see any issue with it.

I always thought it was odd that many volunteer places let non-certified people pull shifts on the ambulance but that's just me. I get some places need drivers and all that but I'd rather people go to class first rather than being potentially taught bad habits before getting any semblance of education.

 

[SeeNoMore]

Personally this will entirely depend on the call. If it is a critical patient I would prefer to conduct any interview to make sure that the information I required was obtained. I would have no problem letting an EMT student/ridealong interview a patient, take manual v/s, apply 02 etc. It just falls on the EMT/Medic to make sure that no information is missed and to verify v/s before treatment. I would check in on a day by day basis with your crew. I think the idea of you just carrying equipment is silly. Are we really going to pretend that every call is so critical that letting a ridealong / student fumble with the nasal 02 for a sec or work on a blood pressure is the end of the world?

 

[spnjsquad]

Personally this will entirely depend on the call. If it is a critical patient I would prefer to conduct any interview to make sure that the information I required was obtained. I would have no problem letting an EMT student/ridealong interview a patient, take manual v/s, apply 02 etc. It just falls on the EMT/Medic to make sure that no information is missed and to verify v/s before treatment. I would check in on a day by day basis with your crew. I think the idea of you just carrying equipment is silly. Are we really going to pretend that every call is so critical that letting a ridealong / student fumble with the nasal 02 for a sec or work on a blood pressure is the end of the world?

I agree. I can sorta understand because being under 18 does uncover some liability hazards, but as long as it's not a critical paitent that requires hands on treatment every second of the call, and an experienced EMT/Medic checks everything over, why is there a problem? I also don't get why people don't like it when a non EMT asks questions. If you're refering to a certian mnemonic like OPQURST, you're not endangering the paitent in any way, you're just asking damn questions! I'm fortunate enough to have my crew chief be a very nice guy who has been an EMT for over 30 years. One of the few that really wants the rider to learn something during the call, not just stare and carry equipment.

 

[SeeNoMore]

I think most people would agree that having a student or ridealong increases your workload. You , in theory , are teaching and double checking what your student does. Some people don't want to do this. Others just seem to have an inflated ego or a juvenile desire to "put the probie through their paces".

It takes time/experience to conduct a good assessment/interview. Also, experienced providers may not go down a set list but instead focus first on questions that pertain to their evolving diagnosis. In a stable patient I see no issue letting a student/ridealong begin questioning based on a set mnemonic and adding as needed or just taking over if it's not going so smoothly. There is no way to learn these things except to do them with a real live patient.

 

[NJEMT95]

For me, it depends on how far along the student is in the course and how competent they seem. When I have EMT students on my crew, I always make sure they know what every piece of equipment we carry is and where it is located. I also have them practice vitals and certain other skills on other members to see how confident they are with the skill.
On calls, their role can range anywhere from being an observer & gofer, all the way to running the call if they are competent and near the end of their course.
It definitely takes more work on my part to get to know the student and their abilities but in the end, they're more helpful if you can establish their specific responsibilities.