New Kansas law allows EMS/FD to concealed carry.

[SandpitMedic]

http://www.ems1.com/fire-ems/articl...esponders-to-carry-concealed-weapons-on-duty/

Interesting read. While I am half/half on the the subject, I noticed it's only for government employees (city/county/state). No private corporation is going to allow that liability. The last thing they want is some EMT who couldn't get hired by the police department shooting some unarmed black guy on YouTube/CNN.

That'll be the day.

 

[kev54]

Keep in mind many counties are insured by big insurance companies who will payout when mistakes are made. They may start paying a lot more in premiums or have the policies declined to be renewed because of the huge added liability of firefighters and ems folks carrying firearms. Not to mention it could be completely excluded from coverage so when the firefighter shoots someone the county or city may end up paying a large amount that the county budget probably can't afford but hopefully it can. When a mistake happens it will be very costly economically and politically.

 

[cprted]

Bill 2502 allows employees who work for a municipality or state to carry firearms on their person, except inside of school zones or private buildings that are specifically marked as “gun free.”

So you're carrying as allowed by law and you get a priority call to a "gun free" building ... now what? ... return to quarters to secure your firearm? Leave it in the truck?

 

[DesertMedic66]

A lockbox in the unit would work easily to secure a firearm.

I carry 2 shotguns with me everyday to work. To bad they are strapped on my arms...

 

[CALEMT]

A lockbox in the unit would work easily to secure a firearm.

I carry 2 shotguns with me everyday to work. To bad they are strapped on my arms...

BB guns are ok to bring to work. Real guns however, are not.

 

[Summit]

Let's just mount twin 50s on a turret on top of the ambulance

 

[Flying]

Let's just mount twin 50s on a turret on top of the ambulance

Third rides will never be the same.

 

[Summit]

Third rides will never be the same.

40mm auto grenade or remote control 12.7mm machine gun

But I think that it might need some guided missiles or perhaps a tactical nuclear capability... you know... to help wildland FD with controlled burns.

 

[SandpitMedic]

The theme is... It's unnecessary to have a gun in EMS work. I agree.

However, I worry more about being targeted by some crazy fool out of their mind than I do about patients. Our uniforms also look like PD. Adds to my paranoia.

 

[medicsb]

Only bad things will come of this. No EMS lives will be saved unless a gun is used to make everyone drive safer or wear a seatbelt. And I bet you a prosecutor will be far more likely to persecute an EMSer than a cop. And a jury will be much more likely to convict than they would for a cop. You'll think you're safer, but you'll be more dangerous and a huge liability to all around you.

 

[Summit]

However, I worry more about being targeted by some crazy fool out of their mind than I do about patients. Our uniforms also look like PD. Adds to my paranoia.

Get new uniforms! I don't want my patients thinking I'm The Law. It is hard enough to get them to tell me the truth already!

 

[NomadicMedic]

Get new uniforms! I don't want my patients thinking I'm The Law. It is hard enough to get them to tell me the truth already!

Agreed. We should all be wearing something hi-viz. I hate wearing a blue uniform that makes me look like a cop.

 

[DesertMedic66]

We are switching uniforms that make us look more like PD. Not a fan of the black color in the desert but they do look a lot more professional.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Get new uniforms! I don't want my patients thinking I'm The Law. It is hard enough to get them to tell me the truth already!

I wish
I'd rather wear a navy t-shirt.

 

[CALEMT]

I wish
I'd rather wear a navy t-shirt.

You and everyone else that lives in the desert.

 

[joshrunkle35]

I don't really worry about patients, what I do worry about, however, are the people who shoot at ambulances because they associate them with "the government" or people who would try to harm someone in the process of trying to steal meds.

In my state, I carry a gun everywhere, everyday, except when I am on the ambulance. I've done so for the last 12 years. Every day. I don't understand why I am not allowed to protect myself. I have zero desire to protect the meds...let them have them. If they want the truck...that's a situation for the cops. I have zero desire to be a vigilante. But, I believe I have a right to self-preservation, and I carry a gun for the same reason that I have a fire extinguisher.

I certainly don't plan on fighting fires with a fire extinguisher. I'll let the firefighters do that. It's simply a life saving device, should the incredibly rare possibility that it is needed arise.

If my state says I'm fine to walk about with a hidden weapon until I suddenly start treating people, then I simply would like to see that the state is equally interested in my right to self-preservation. They should dispatch police to every scene to secure any and all unknowns for me.

If you think "that's a job for the police", I think, "yeah, I'm fine with that. Just keep one attached to my hip 24/7 and I won't have an issue."

 

[NysEms2117]

josh i agree with that mostly, i just have one question, would you think it would get in the way of patient care, examples such as moving patients things of that nature(I AM NOT AN EMT YET I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW). I feel that reaching over a patient would be a potentially crucial situation. Also do you think changing EMS uniforms would help with violence toward EMS personnel? I know when I work carrying open is much easier, because retention is much more controllable, especially due to proper training ect. What licenses do EMS personnel need to carry?

 

[joshrunkle35]

josh i agree with that mostly, i just have one question, would you think it would get in the way of patient care, examples such as moving patients things of that nature(I AM NOT AN EMT YET I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW). I feel that reaching over a patient would be a potentially crucial situation. Also do you think changing EMS uniforms would help with violence toward EMS personnel? I know when I work carrying open is much easier, because retention is much more controllable, especially due to proper training ect. What licenses do EMS personnel need to carry?

Open Carry is a pretty bad idea. It's a combination sign that equally says, "Steal my gun" and "Shoot me first." Additionally, it would probably make half of your patients feel more comfortable and half of them feel less comfortable. We really have a moral duty to put the welfare of our patients first, and that includes their psychological well being. 2am when they're at their worst is not the time to try to educate them about your position on guns or personal safety.

My post was only in reference to either concealed carry, the chief idea being "concealed". I hang out with friends from work off the job, and they have no clue; why does it suddenly matter if we're discussing something that should remain secured and hidden, and only be revealed in the gravest of circumstances?

Yes, you can absolutely conceal a full-sized gun in manners that are secured on your body and completely hidden, even in uniform.

I'm referencing something that the government already allows me to do every day, because they have deemed that the feelings about concealed carry people posing a possible threat to society are just absolute nonsense, and something that I intend to keep just as private as whatever underpants I chose to wear that day.

Again, I'd be totally cool "leaving the security to the cops", but if that's the case, and my personal security decisions are removed from me and left in someone else's hands, then I want full time 24/7 security, which to me means secured quarters and police escort on every scene and true security screening at all entrances to the ED, including internal hallways.

 

[NysEms2117]

oh, I wasn't disagreeing i was just asking. I work in LE and was not recommending open carry for you folks, just stating that thats how i carry with work. My main concern was reaching for something and patients seeing the outline or something along those lines, I apologize for any confusion. I honestly wish more civilians carried, but story for another day.

 

[Summit]

@joshrunkle35 what you are asked to do as a medical provider requires your concentration elsewhere while at extreme close quarters with patient(s) where it is just extremely difficult to ensure that they cannot go hands on, grab your weapon, etc.

I'm pretty sure if you are familiar with self-defense you are familiar with the 21ft rule, right? All of our patients and most of our bystanders, including the crazy ones who snap, live WELL inside the 21ft rule! The altered patient doesn't have to actually have to grab your gun and shoot someone for it to be a bad day. Simply grabbing your weapon would probaby not be good for your agency's image or your employment status. So while I'm very pro-CCW, I am not for on-duty medical professionals (except tactical medics).

So call for those police responses. I did when I had even the slightest thought in the back of my mind. And remember that you are far more likely to by killed or injured in a traffic accident on duty than in an on-duty self-defense situation where a personal pistol would make a difference (which you've identified as the random anti-authority type taking pot shots at you, but with a pistol, because your pistol won't be worth much against a long arm at distance).