New CPR Guidelines, AED's & State Testing

[nwhitney]

Anyone dealing with the new CPR guidelines and training AED's that are programmed for ABC not CAB? The school I work for has state testing this weekend for Basics and all our AED's that will be used for testing are not programmed correctly. Of course in an ideal world the school would have taken care of this a while ago as they knew it would be a program. I'm going to be working the state testing as an evaluator and would like to have a work around solution to present.

 

[mycrofft]

GO with it.

Test CPR separately from the AED.
Also, what you are testing with the AED isn't the CPR sequence but whether the leads are promptly and successfully secured, the pt isn't lying in a puddle with a nitro patch under the electrode, the top one is over the RIGHT shoulder, etc.



What if you turned on the AE and it spoke Chinese?

 

[nwhitney]

Test CPR separately from the AED.
Also, what you are testing with the AED isn't the CPR sequence but whether the leads are promptly and successfully secured, the pt isn't lying in a puddle with a nitro patch under the electrode, the top one is over the RIGHT shoulder, etc.



What if you turned on the AE and it spoke Chinese?

They aren't tested on CPR as they already have that cert. They're test on BLS Cardiac/AED. During the test they aren't doing CPR rather a lay person is. The problem is the AED machines are programmed to have the rescuer go through the ABC sequence and these students learned CAB. In addition once they have the pads on and are ready to analyze the AED is still telling them to "remain calm, call for help, open the airway, give 2 breathes" all the while waiting for the AED to catch up so they can analyze. Time is ticking away on this 5 min. station. Plus with this being the state testing we will have candidates from other schools that don't know the AED's and could be expecting updated machines. I feel the students are essentially being given faulty equipment.

As much as I like them being purposely stressed to see how they do with equipment they aren't familiar with I also don't want to stress them out needlessly. I don't think we currently have fair testing practices.

 

[mycrofft]

You're a good person then.

Write a memo for record delineating the issue, then give a briefing explaining the issue to the examinees.

 

[46Young]

There's a $90 video that the instructor should be showing you. Matter of fact, it's mandatory. Most of the instruction is done through the video. This is to ensure that a class in Maine and a class in New Mexico are getting identical material. The videos are set up so that you can choose to have the video repeat the skills practice for multiple students at each section.

The video has sections where you practice in real time with the actor(s), mirroring their actions. If your AED does not conform to 2010 AHA guidelines, then I suppose you could follow along with the video and verbalize turning the machine on. Same for testing.

If the regional AHA person (not sure of the title) catches on to this, your school could be in trouble, BTW.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I would hope that they are smarter than the machine... continue compressions while it blabbers away then stop once it says it's analyzing, it's not rocket science.

 

[nwhitney]

There's a $90 video that the instructor should be showing you. Matter of fact, it's mandatory. Most of the instruction is done through the video. This is to ensure that a class in Maine and a class in New Mexico are getting identical material. The videos are set up so that you can choose to have the video repeat the skills practice for multiple students at each section.

The video has sections where you practice in real time with the actor(s), mirroring their actions. If your AED does not conform to 2010 AHA guidelines, then I suppose you could follow along with the video and verbalize turning the machine on. Same for testing.

If the regional AHA person (not sure of the title) catches on to this, your school could be in trouble, BTW.

It's not so much the AHA and instruction as it is the state of Oregon, the school I work at and the state certification testing this weekend. As of Spring term this school year all EMT students are going through the new AHA CPR. There is the possibility that some students are testing and still under the old AHA standards.

I would hope that they are smarter than the machine... continue compressions while it blabbers away then stop once it says it's analyzing, it's not rocket science.

You would think but there were a few last night that didn't get it no matter how much I tried to explain.

 

[Handsome Robb]

You would think but there were a few last night that didn't get it no matter how much I tried to explain.

Then they have no business taking care of people.

Just my opinion.

 

[nwhitney]

Write a memo for record delineating the issue, then give a briefing explaining the issue to the examinees.

I will bring it up to the Certifying Officer this weekend prior to testing but I can't say anything to the candidates other than what is on my script. This is why I'm hoping to come in this weekend with some possible solutions to present. Of course I'm just a lowly Basic so who knows if the CO's will even care what I say.

 

[nwhitney]

Then they have no business taking care of people.

Just my opinion.

I agree but at the same time they are being asked to demonstrate a skill on equipment that isn't current and they didn't learn on it.

If it were up to me about a 1/3 of the class wouldn't be testing this weekend but unfortunately I don't get the final say.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I agree but at the same time they are being asked to demonstrate a skill on equipment that isn't current and they didn't learn on it.

If it were up to me about a 1/3 of the class wouldn't be testing this weekend but unfortunately I don't get the final say.

I have yet to toy with an AED that has been updated.

Big part of the job is adaptability. We use Philips MRx monitors at my service. The hospitals use Zolls. I didn't learn with a zoll but I'm damn well expected to be able to operate one proficiently if needed during clinical rotations.

 

[nwhitney]

I have yet to toy with an AED that has been updated.

Big part of the job is adaptability. We use Philips MRx monitors at my service. The hospitals use Zolls. I didn't learn with a zoll but I'm damn well expected to be able to operate one proficiently if needed during clinical rotations.

I'll give you the "didn't learn on it still expected to be able to operate it"