Medic School Without Experience?

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

Forgive me for posting or reposting this. I remember there was a thread on this subject but couldn't find any on the search engine. I'm starting medic school on june 16th. I just finished EMT-B last December of 2008. With no job experience or any EMT-B experience except few ride alongs. I hear some people say "get some experience first" and some say dive straight into medic school. It kinda "bugs" me just to hear one thing and another from time to time. But I'm diving into medic school and dedicating my all into it. Just want to hear what you medics have to say out there.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Unfortunately, many schools in California will require experience before you can even apply. However, it is the firm belief of many professional educators with decades of experience that EMT experience is not needed for success as a paramedic student. In fact, many of us believe it actually hurts you as a student. I subscribe to that theory.

And, with fire departments running all the real EMS, it's hard to even get EMT experience in California, and many other states, even if it were good for you. If you can get in without it, blow it off.

What you DO need in order to get the maximum benefit from paramedic school, as well as to be the best medic you can be, is a solid foundation from which to build your education. That means you should have two semesters of college anatomy & physiology done before you step foot into your first day of medic school. Additionally, in order to be a truly competent practitioner, before practicing as a medic, you should have a couple semesters of psychology, sociology, algebra, composition, and communications courses, as well as microbiology. You can get a patch without them, but you'll just be another protocol monkey. If you want to kill a year before paramedic school, do the college thing instead of the ambulance driver thing. It will make you a much, much, MUCH better medic. And you never get a second chance to build a foundation. Once you go to medic school, going back and taking those courses later is not the same thing.

 

[EDAC]

Great question, I would be interested as well. I am in the EMT-B course because it is a neccesity to become a Paramedic. I would like to get right into Paramedic school before the ink dries on my NREMT certificate.

 

[AJ Hidell]

If your paramedic school requires that you finish the above prerequisite courses first, then by all means, get on it before you even receive your card in the mail. If your paramedic school does not require those prerequisites, it probably sucks.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

The only reason I would agree that a years experience as an EMT-B on Ambulance is a good thing (and required in most CA schools) is that without prior experience who knows if you really want to get into this mess or if you are really cut out for it. Theoreticlly you could be 19 and have your medic without ever have really worked in the field and had sole care in your hands (except for those supervised hours during EMT/Medic school). I know quite a few EMTs that got out in the field and said, "Wow, I've got to do that and deal with that... (Faint)... (lifted up by the FF's)... I quit!"

Other than that, though, if you are really cut out for EMS, then a year running IFTs and "babysitting" your medic doesn't really prepare you anymore to be a medic, and, yes, I could see how it would hurt.

The college I was interested in going to medic school with years ago (before life held me down as a lowely EMT) required (minimum), in addition to your EMT and the one years experience, 2 semesters of A&P, 1 semester in basic Cardiology, and 1 semester of Pre-Paramedic. 7 weeks of First Responder was also required before teh semester of EMT, so if you planned it right, it would take you 2.5 years from start to finish to go from High Schooler to Medic.

 

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

Unfortunately, many schools in California will require experience before you can even apply. However, it is the firm belief of many professional educators with decades of experience that EMT experience is not needed for success as a paramedic student. In fact, many of us believe it actually hurts you as a student. I subscribe to that theory.

And, with fire departments running all the real EMS, it's hard to even get EMT experience in California, and many other states, even if it were good for you. If you can get in without it, blow it off.

What you DO need in order to get the maximum benefit from paramedic school, as well as to be the best medic you can be, is a solid foundation from which to build your education. That means you should have two semesters of college anatomy & physiology done before you step foot into your first day of medic school. Additionally, in order to be a truly competent practitioner, before practicing as a medic, you should have a couple semesters of psychology, sociology, algebra, composition, and communications courses, as well as microbiology. You can get a patch without them, but you'll just be another protocol monkey. If you want to kill a year before paramedic school, do the college thing instead of the ambulance driver thing. It will make you a much, much, MUCH better medic. And you never get a second chance to build a foundation. Once you go to medic school, going back and taking those courses later is not the same thing.

While the school I'm attending does requires prerequisites. Had to show them my college transcript. I took all the prerequisites to get into nursing school. But since its so pack here in California I decided to go for Paramedic. Don't get me wrong, I'm just jumping intro paramedic cause I couldn't get in Nursing. It was my plan all along if I didn't get into Nursing. Either one I'd be happy with. I did take both anatomy and physiology in a quarter system so it was Bio 40A, 40B, and 40C which is the equivalent of a semester. I also took microbio, 2 phlebotomy class with the 2nd teaching injections. I don't know what else to say but I pretty much finished all the college classes even went to take Pre-calculus which wasn't even needed.

I'm just hoping I won't get discourage because most of the students who's attending have experience out in the field so I won't be able to relate. :sad:

 

[reaper]

What won't you be able to relate to? Driving an ambulance. Taking a BP. Backboarding a pt. All of these are not hard to do. If you are able to get into class and know that this is what you want to do, then go for it. EMT experience will get you nothing that will make you a better medic!

 

[medicdan]

I happen to agree that academic pre-requisites are much more important before starting medic school then experience on the road, but have some qualms.

I worked with a medic a few weeks ago, fresh out of a medic program, with no field experience, but whom the company required to work BLS for some time. Fine. Great. And they assigned him to me.

Aside from the fact he complained all day about not having "medic toys", having to play taxicab all day, and boasting, I found he had little or no patient care skills.

He had no rapport with patients-- didn’t talk to them, or interact beyond niceties. The one emergency we got I took, because he had the deer-in-the headlights look on scene. I took care of things on scene, and he actually did well with his role en route to the hospital. That is a perfectly normal reaction for an EMT-B (trainee), but something I found disconcerting in a medic who had completed countless hours of clinical and ride time. He needed to spend some serious time working on lifts (especially with the stretcher), and working on paperwork...

The lifts and paperwork are normal problems for new employees (EMT or Medic), and he will learn soon enough. I could care less about them. Even the deer-in-the-headlights will fade, eventually (I hope!). What was most troubling to me was his poor rapport when talking to our patients. I hope his cockiness fades quickly, or I can promise, he won’t make it far in EMS. Remember, as a new medic, you are still spending an entire shift with another human being, just a few feet away, and you need to be able to talk respectfully to them while at work…

I guess what I am trying to say, is that, if possible, I highly suggest getting experience on a truck while in medic school. Even if it just means working a shift every other week, do it. It will make you that much better of a medic.

 

[Onceamedic]

A lot depends on where you run and what the practice there is. I was in a similar situation. I had to wait 1 1/2 years to get into the paramedic school of my choice. (full classes, priority given to "affiliated" students, etc.) I could not get an EMT job and truthfully, I wasn't that diligent about getting one. My plan had always been to become a paramedic, and EMT was the hoop I jumped through to get there.
I went to school in Wisconsin, and my first paramedic job was (and is) in Arizona. In Arizona, 1 year as an EMT is a prerequisite for paramedic school. I had a lot of difficulty with the others that I ran with. They were of the firm opinion that one cannot possibly be a medic without being an EMT first. I showed them otherwise, but it was by the grace of God. I had EMTs actually gunning for me - think sabotage.
I love my job, and I don't believe anyone I run with now would dispute that I do it well. They still say "it would have helped you to be an EMT for a while."
The positives - I had no pre-existing bad habits - no mentality of "that's not the way we do it in the field". I did not resist the education or dismiss what I was learning as "book larnin"
Are things different in the field? Only in that calls rarely run as textbook smooth as they do in school. The anatomy, physiology, standard of care and proper technique is always the same as in school. It gives me a standard to aim for - a benchmark to measure my performance against.
To summarize - It is not necessary to be an EMT before becoming a medic, but be prepared to get your b***s busted by those that think otherwise.
Good luck to you.

 

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

Damn, sabotage...? Hopefully I don't have any problems with things like that in the class. Cause frankly if people won't disrespect me than I won't respect them. I had my share of lots of fights verbal and physical. Thanks for your input, I'll keep my guard up.

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

While I agree higher education before medic school is crucial, as i completed all my nursing pre-req's prior to medic school also. I disagree with not working in a bls capacity first, specifically on a 911 truck.

Working as an EMT either on a 911 truck or as a ER Tech will give you valuable experience on patient communication, call flow, a SOLID understanding of priorities and you will have mastered your BLS skills. Skipping BLS and it's skill set may prove disasterous someday when your paired with a green EMT and need something done while your doing something else. Just to find your EMT is incapable of completing it and you have to actually think about it as you havent already done it yourself. Medic school is just that, there not going to be teaching you bls skills, so you better get them somewhere. Also working in the BLS capacity assisting ALS is a great way to learn the the equipment and protocols, prior to you being the main provider.

 

[triemal04]

That is a perfectly normal reaction for an EMT-B (trainee), but something I found disconcerting in a medic who had completed countless hours of clinical and ride time.

Unfortunately, that is not necessarily true, and it's the only justifiable argument that can be made for getting real word experience as an EMT prior to becoming a paramedic. And most of the time it get's made wrong.

The amount of time that is required for clinical (in hospital) and the internship (field) varies widely, as does what the student/intern is allowed to do. In some states the amount of time an internship lasts is as little as 200 hours with 40 ALS pt contacts...think about it, that's less than a month of full time work. Do you really think that will help truly prepare someone to work in the field on their own? Of course, that isn't necessarily a problem; some agencies expect this, and are willing to spend the time, effort, and money in getting their new hires up to speed before letting them loose on their own...strange, but it's usually these agencies that don't have a problem with people leaving... Others expect people to come in fully prepared and throw them to the wolves right off the bat...not necessarily a problem if your internship consisted of well over 500 hours, but if it was short...could be a problem. This is where prior EMT experience could help. (and by EMT experience I mean working in a 911 system paired with a paramedic...though that doesn't always work out)

If you come into the internship already being comfortable in talking with pt's, police, nurses, doc's, family, bystanders, nut jobs, and everyone else we encounter, it makes things much easier; not having to learn how to gain a rapport with people gives you more time to focus on how to be a paramedic. The same goes for the basic skills; backboarding, splinting and the like. While it doesn't take much time to master those, it still takes time away from being able to learn other things, and, depending on where you go, you may not have the luxury of a lot of time.

Unfortunately, most of the jobs that people find as EMT's are not 911 related, or only a tiny percentage of the calls are; interfacility transports all the way. While this can be a learning experience, more than likely it won't be, and will lead to learning poor habits, attitudes and lousy pt care. So really, that isn't recommended.

There really isn't a perfect answer. You need to look at your own comfort level in talking with random people and being able to function in stressful situations, the length of the paramedic internship, how the local services (or wherever you want to work) train their new medics, and the type of job you'd really get as an EMT. For some it may be better to work as an EMT for a year, or during medic school. For others it won't.

 

[Sparky21]

A lot depends on where you run and what the practice there is. I was in a similar situation. I had to wait 1 1/2 years to get into the paramedic school of my choice. (full classes, priority given to "affiliated" students, etc.) I could not get an EMT job and truthfully, I wasn't that diligent about getting one. My plan had always been to become a paramedic, and EMT was the hoop I jumped through to get there.
I went to school in Wisconsin, and my first paramedic job was (and is) in Arizona. In Arizona, 1 year as an EMT is a prerequisite for paramedic school. I had a lot of difficulty with the others that I ran with. They were of the firm opinion that one cannot possibly be a medic without being an EMT first. I showed them otherwise, but it was by the grace of God. I had EMTs actually gunning for me - think sabotage.
I love my job, and I don't believe anyone I run with now would dispute that I do it well. They still say "it would have helped you to be an EMT for a while."
The positives - I had no pre-existing bad habits - no mentality of "that's not the way we do it in the field". I did not resist the education or dismiss what I was learning as "book larnin"
Are things different in the field? Only in that calls rarely run as textbook smooth as they do in school. The anatomy, physiology, standard of care and proper technique is always the same as in school. It gives me a standard to aim for - a benchmark to measure my performance against.
To summarize - It is not necessary to be an EMT before becoming a medic, but be prepared to get your b***s busted by those that think otherwise.
Good luck to you.

What part of AZ? When i went through my EMT-B class they taught us the book way "becasue they had to" and then taught us the way they did it in the field.

Does anyone know a good place to find a list of good medic schools?

 

[Shishkabob]

We were always taught, and I quote;


"Only one of the many ways things can be done. If you find a better way, do it. What's done in the field is never done on the test, so keep that in mind"

 

[4mysins]

Get some time in as an EMT first. I have limited field time and I can tell a world of difference being in Paramedic school compared to some of the others that currently work in a truck as a full time job. It just motivates me to bust my butt and work harder. If you have time and age on your side, use it to get the experience on your side. Hands on experience does a world of good that you won't ever find from a book! I am telling you this from experinece. Good Luck!

Jenn
68 days to Paramedic graduation!

 

[Ridryder911]

We were always taught, and I quote;


"Only one of the many ways things can be done. If you find a better way, do it. What's done in the field is never done on the test, so keep that in mind"

What a horrible statement. Might as well also say, we will deny anything we told you in court!

The education and information given and to be received from the curriculum are foundations to build upon. There is NO class way or field way, there is the best way for your patient. Remember, when what you will be held and be accountable to in a court of law. Yes, as in everyday real life one has to modify and adjust to accomodate to be able to deliver the best care possible.

R/r 911

 

[terrible one]

I can understand the rush to get through paramedic school, HOWEVER, the best way to sum it up is -
"BLS before ALS"
if you do NOT have a foundation of BLS to put your ALS knowlegde on you will fail. maybe not in the classroom but in the field. I can not possibly imagine not being an EMT atleast for a year before jumping into a paramedic class. the information given is 100x more in depth.
not only in the class but in the field, how is someone supposed to manage pt in a real life scenario without EVER being in the back of a rig? a text book can only teach you so much, having the real life experience is definitely needed.

do yourself a favor, put in the time as an EMT before moving on. you will be a much better medic in the end

 

[JPINFV]

^
Yet we somehow expect physicians to treat patients day in and day out without ever being a PA or RN first.

 

[reaper]

People, Can we drop the "BLS before ALS" nonsense! It is called treating the pt. Yes, A paramedic can treat a pt better, because they have more knowledge and treatments avalible to them.

If your Paramedic school has great clinical experience. Then you will learn all you need know as an EMT, during clinicals. This also includes pt care and contact.

It is up to each induvidual to know if they can handle the responsiblity or not.

 

[terrible one]

^
Yet we somehow expect physicians to treat patients day in and day out without ever being a PA or RN first.

you have to have a 4 year degree to be a Dr. plus all the pre-reqs they take to get to med school. and how long does it take to be a Dr? 8 years?

EMT = one semester class, medic = one year class. is that really too much of a pre-req to take?

IMO medic school should be atleast 2 years, and atleast one year of working as an EMT prior to attending. it is way too much information in a short one semester classroom. and ill tell you that all the people that failed or did poorly worked as an EMT less than 6 months in my class