mad dies after calling 911 10 times

medic417

The Truth Provider
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This is the QA review of that event by city EMS's medical director, released by city's public safety director. Recommended read for all interested.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26960692/Medical-Call-Review-for-5161-Chaplain-Way
Accessed via http://roguemedic.blogspot.com/

This was a failure by everyone based on that. But based on that the Paramedics did not cancel rather the caller did. The Paramedics also had no knowledge based on this of the other calls and were told caller cancelled so they were not given reason to pursue a rescue attempt.
 

CAOX3

Forum Deputy Chief
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Snow in Pittsburgh in the winter, wow that never happens. They should have been better prepared.

Get your check book out.
 

medic8613

Forum Crew Member
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How? Are they properly equipped by the service to be hiking in snow and ice? Are you sure that was actually said? Have you ever heard of "is the scene safe"?

Don't judge as you may not have all the facts.

Any paramedic worth a damn can suck it up and walk three blocks in the snow. It's not summiting K2, it's walking down a city street. If a medic shows up to work not ready to be outdoors for a while, they are bad at their job. I have never seen an EMS job description that did not mention being outdoors in all weather conditions for an extended period of time. When I go to work every day, I have the right clothes and gear to be outdoors. And yes, Pittsburgh EMS has really nice warm jackets. I know this because I used to have one.
 

ebassamore

Forum Ride Along
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ok first off if his wife could see the lights both the medic and the emt could have walked there and second i dont know what its like there but in minnesota where i work dispatch can have the road plowed by the closet city vehicle of a sheriff truck but 9 out of 10 times our first responders have it plowed out with there personal vehicles.
they do not desereve there tittle if they cant walk 1 block to save someones life, its not like they would be endangering there own life.
 

jrm818

Forum Captain
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It isn't like that in Pittsburgh...in 4 years there I think I saw an actual plow once in the city. I'm sure there are some, but not many.

I was also wondering about the medics not walking to the patient. From the review it sounds like they weren't sitting in their nice warm ambulance staring at the snow and drinking coffee: they were actively trying to dig the (now stuck) ambulance out!
 

EMSLaw

Legal Beagle
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This is the QA review of that event by city EMS's medical director, released by city's public safety director. Recommended read for all interested.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26960692/Medical-Call-Review-for-5161-Chaplain-Way
Accessed via http://roguemedic.blogspot.com/

A very interesting read. Seems like the situation was a bit different than I envisioned it initially. Still a tragic situation, though, and the QA identifies at least some of the areas where things fell apart.
 

medic8613

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I was also wondering about the medics not walking to the patient. From the review it sounds like they weren't sitting in their nice warm ambulance staring at the snow and drinking coffee: they were actively trying to dig the (now stuck) ambulance out!

If the rig was stuck, they should have called for FD to help with the rig and to clear a path, and then proceeded on foot to the patient to begin care while FD responded and got to work. PEMS is an all ALS service with EMS physicians in fly-cars (4 wheel drive fly-cars). Even without a means of transportation, tarting treatment on scene could have made a big difference (sadly, we will never know).

This is a reason I am a big advocate of some sort of training in wilderness medicine. It provides people with the skills and mindset to work in situations where definitive care is not an immediate option, and extended patient contact is necessary. In wilderness medicine, "wilderness" is generally defined as being 1 hour from definitive care. The wilderness can be in a city too, not just the woods.
 

eynonqrs

Forum Lieutenant
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There was no excuse for this. A few years ago in my area we had the Valentines day storm. We had crews from outside agenices and the county put out an alert to anyone had 4wd units or pov's to help out. They would transport pt's to a waiting ambulance that was in a safe area where they were in no danger of getting stuck. My service has a 4wd chase truck, and they recently purchased a 4wd truck with a utility body with a plow. It is going to be used as rehab unit/chase unit, but also for bad weather help crews to get unstuck or to plow ahead of them if they need access to a call. Also to be honest, that day of the valentines day storm I was running calls with my volunteer unit, we had no chains on our units. We had no problem getting arround despite increasing poor road conditions.
 

Foxbat

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http://www.wpxi.com/news/22886177/detail.html

State Clears EMS Workers In Hazelwood Snow Death


A report released Friday from the Pennsylvania Department of Health found Pittsburgh EMS workers did not violate state law in the death of her common law husband, Curtis Mitchell, 50.
...
The city is conducting its own investigation and has yet to decide if the EMS workers will be disciplined, but Mayor Luke Ravenstahl said he disagrees with the state ruling.
 

medic417

The Truth Provider
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http://www.wpxi.com/news/22886177/detail.html

State Clears EMS Workers In Hazelwood Snow Death


A report released Friday from the Pennsylvania Department of Health found Pittsburgh EMS workers did not violate state law in the death of her common law husband, Curtis Mitchell, 50.
...
The city is conducting its own investigation and has yet to decide if the EMS workers will be disciplined, but Mayor Luke Ravenstahl said he disagrees with the state ruling.

Finally some common sense prevails. If it is unsafe they should not be forced to go. If they volunteer to go it is their choice. No one should fault someone for applying the first rule of EMS....................SAFETY!!!!!!!!
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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So walking in the snow is now too dangerous?


Edit:

Let me clarify, when statements like this
Medics claimed they couldn't get near the house in the deep snow. At one point they asked Mitchell to walk to an ambulance four blocks away, but he was in too much pain.

are made, then obviously the conditions aren't to the extreme of being considered "dangerous." If you can expect a sick person to do it, then the EMS providers on the ambulance should be able to do it too.


Edit number 2:

2004_02_23_stokes_training_2.jpg


PLUS

ROPE-9MM-ACC258.jpg


equals

252523_11_41


Or use a

skgi_4192565_1089.JPG


to move patient from house to ambulance.

or at the very least, set up shop and administer care on scene.
 
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medic417

The Truth Provider
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So walking in the snow is now too dangerous?

Don't be stupid if you read anything about it you know there was much more than a little snow in the way. You should never decide your safety is important because if you do you are going to a hypocrite.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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So the condition isn't severe enough to ask the patient to walk but too bad for the professional rescuers? Sorry, but that concept is mutually exclusive. It's like saying that fire fighters shouldn't go into burning houses because it's dangerous and the people inside should just walk out.
 

VFFforpeople

Forum Captain
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Don't be stupid if you read anything about it you know there was much more than a little snow in the way. You should never decide your safety is important because if you do you are going to a hypocrite.

I am just kinda taking in the situation, lets see to start:

At least one of the EMS workers must have lived there for Xamount of years and knows it snows.

If you can drive in it, I am fairly sure you can walk in it, unless they are driving monster truck boxes

How many unsafe things do we do in a day(s) drive Code 3 that isnt safe for anyone, walk into houses for medicals,fire,low angle,TCs, all that is unsafe to because I dont know what os on the other side of that door, or if my rope will break, or a semi will drive into my "safe" zone on the highway or road way.

Your walking out in the open, daylight, radio, a partner, not seeing a whole lot of danger involved in walking to them.
 

eynonqrs

Forum Lieutenant
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This is bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: ! EMS stated the ambulance wasn't at fault ? I tell you what, it if was my family or anyone one that I knew got denied EMS beacause they were too lazy to do anything. You bet that I would get a lawyer in this. I have been on plenty of calls in bad snow storms, and we found a way to get to the pt ! It's called bad planning, not calling for assistance. Call it what you want. There is no reason for this !
 

EMSLaw

Legal Beagle
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2004_02_23_stokes_training_2.jpg


PLUS

ROPE-9MM-ACC258.jpg


equals

252523_11_41


Or use a

skgi_4192565_1089.JPG


to move patient from house to ambulance.

or at the very least, set up shop and administer care on scene.

Best. Post. EVAR.

And right and my reading level, too. Though I think I said it first. FDs love to play with ropes and stokes baskets. If it was a five-year old with difficulty breathing in a rich part of town, I guarantee it would have been done. (Cynical? Maybe a little).
 
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LucidResq

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City disciplining 4 EMS workers over snowstorm death


Pittsburgh officials this afternoon announced disciplinary action against four Emergency Medical Services workers for not doing enough to help Hazelwood resident Curtis Mitchell during a February snowstorm.

"He ain't [expletive] comin' down, and I ain't waitin' all day for him," acting crew chief Josie Dimon was heard to say on a 911 recording played at a news conference today. "I mean, what the [expletive]. This ain't no cab service," she said during a transmission at 2 a.m. Feb. 6. A 911 dispatcher eventually aborted the call.

Facing three-day suspensions are crew chief Kim Long, a union member, and district chiefs Norman Auvil and Ron Curry. Ms. Dimon, also a union member, faces a five-day suspension pending termination.

Before this afternoon's press conference, paramedics told city council this morning that they've been made scapegoats for the city's failed response to the February snowstorm.

"The truth is, there was a total system failure," union grievance chairman Tom Polito said.

"There are no grounds or merit to discipline," he said. "Zero."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10082/1045012-100.stm#ixzz0j35FuVwd
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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here is another part of the article that is pretty important:
Although paramedic union President Anthony Weinmann said his medics were following orders, city Public Safety Director Michael Huss said he expected more. Mr. Huss said he was particularly concerned about the lack of compassion EMS workers showed both in the field and in the 911 center.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10082/1045012-100.stm#ixzz0jAkdUfo2
So the paramedics were just following orders in doing what they did. not saying they were necessarily right, but most large EMS systems are treated like paramilitary organizations. if they disobeyed orders they could be discipline for insubordination or not following the directions of a supervisor.

He can expect all he wants, but change starts at the top, and works it's way down. Fix the management, correct their attitudes, and let them know that their actions won't be permitted. then deal with the field personnel.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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According to the union goon (and, to be fair, I wouldn't trust union goons any farther than I can throw them and I'm out of shape), they were just following orders. According to the director, they didn't do enough. No mention of marching orders were mentioned in the medical directors report.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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According to the union goon (and, to be fair, I wouldn't trust union goons any farther than I can throw them and I'm out of shape), they were just following orders. According to the director, they didn't do enough. No mention of marching orders were mentioned in the medical directors report.
To be fair, the union goon's job is to stand up for the people, and fight for their jobs, regardless of if they were right or wrong.

also to be fair, the director is often a political appointee, who frequently never did the job in that city as a street medic, and as such, their opinion is often whatever is in the best interest of their (the director or mayor's) career, or in response the the public outcry, regardless of if it's based in fact or if its in the best interests of the people they are in charge of.
 
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